Monday, December 19, 2011

Information for Cllr Worrow

The Conservative group, have just released the following Press Release ( Text below) from a quick glance it would seem that the new coalition government in Thanet consisting of Labour and  group of Independent's will be expensive if Cllr Worrow and Cllr Cohen are to see their demands for free parking in Birchington, since to give free parking for thirty minutes will cost the council around forty grand.

CAR PARKING REVIEW – Conservative Group Statement

Amid all the recent angst and comment regarding parking charges across the island, it seems pertinent to remind all of the nature of the parking review which was underway when the Conservative administration left office on 8 December.

Parking had been withdrawn from the annual fees and charges review, and a changed parking regime was to be consulted with members and others across the island in January 2012; for public consultation after presentation to Cabinet in March, for implementation in June.

The highlights of this review were:

# parking to be more demand led

# free parking to be available to help traders every Saturday of the year in one car park in each of the towns: Alpha Road, Birchington; Harold Road, for Northdown Road; Mill Lane, Margate; Cannon Road Ramsgate; Vere Road Broadstairs

# this represents an affordable model at a time of restricted budgets, costing £12,000 approx to the parking budget

Chris Wells, Shadow Cabinet Member for Communities added:

‘We left in place a simple, affordable model for parking, ready to be consulted upon for implementation next year. In addition the parking review was set to investigate what could be additionally done to assist lives of residents near and around the QEQM Hospital, many of whose lives have been reduced to misery by the hospital’s poor management of their own parking facilities. I hope the
incoming administration has the common sense to adopt these simple proposals, and not skew them in favour of particular areas of the island for political reasons.’


For information:

# the cost of implementing 30 minutes free parking in Birchington car parks would be a little under £10,000

# the cost of implementing 30 minutes free parking for Birchington High Street as well would be more than £40,000

# the cost of implementing 30 minutes initial free car parking across the island would be £233,000; more than 43% of car parking income

# these sums would have to be made up from council tax increases, or reduced budgets elsewhere


  1. Chris Wells only commented on Thanetonline the other day that we should not believe political press releases and some blog comments, frankly I don't believe what he says here.

    If TDC were efficient at collecting parking fees they could probably make up the shortfall. I have never paid for on street parking in Ramsgate and never had a ticket and "surprise surprise" there are free on-street parking areas in Margate. (St Johns & Addington Street)

  2. As I suggested the other day, there's a free car park round the back of The Winter Gardens that is owned by TDC, & used mainly by visitors to the theatre & the TC, people who would EXPECT to pay for parking. So a fair bit could be raised there. I'm sure there's other similar locations that could subsidise a little free parking in the towns.

  3. Perhaps if Margate had a free parking disk scheme in place like other towns in the United Kingdom when Westwood Cross had been planned (was it ever planned?) the
    shops in Margate may still be thriving,what is more important employing traffic wardens to swan around in vans slapping tickets on those who have overstayed their limit by a few minutes or slapping tickets on those with disabled badges with their wheels slightly over the line or with their badges in the wrong place or upside down.
    Or collecting rates from shops that are able to stay in business in our town centres, car parking is FREE in Westwood Cross.
    Will the new Tesco in Margate have free parking?of course it will, if built it will be another nail in the coffin.
    Free car parking disks have saved many towns from closing down like Margate.
    Independent Councillor John Worrow is right to save our town shopping centres.

  4. Dear Tony,

    Thanet's Independent group of councillors, are not in coalition with any party. We will vote on an issue by issue basis.

    I suggest that Thanet's unique version of the blue team read the Mary Portas Report.

    Without more affordable parking, shops are at greater risk of closing, costing us far more due loss of business rates etc.

    (I would like to point out that I will not be responding to anonymous comments)

  5. If you want to see the stupidity of this press release just compare the £40,000 cost of a free half hour at Birchington (approx 40 spaces) with £12,000 cost of free parking in 5 car parks throughout Thanet every Saturday (approx 700 spaces)

  6. Chris only seems to pop up and comment on trivial matters just like the rest of them .

  7. Perhaps cllr Wells can explain how his team arrived at these figures before we say they are just plain daft and at best inaccurate.

    Birchington has 40 (non invalid spaces in one car park and 50 in the other but Thanet in general has about 2,000 in total. Thus Birchington has only 5% of the total but free parking here would require nearly 25% of the overall Thanet cost.
    Whatsmore the parking fees in Birchington are cheaper than the average.

    I do not also believe that total revenue is only £542,000.
    This represents less than £1 per day per space. The figure is not broken down in the TDC statement of accounts 2011/12 but when the last increase of 16% was passed this represented a rise of £201,000 indicating a revenue of more than a million.

    The point about the first 30 mins being free is that it will be like a supermarker lost leader. It will encourage many to park and stay more than the free period to spend their cash in Thanets shops.
    Perhaps cllr Wells and his team can tell us their estimate for extra parking income from this extra trade.

  8. We can pluck a parking income figure out of thin air if we like but it doesn't remove the fact that Thanet is battling to fill the gaps in its budget without people experiencing any visible impact on the most essential services. Whatever you remove in terms of parking income increases the strain on services even further and Labour will have to wake-up to this now they have a responsibility for spending the money wisely.

    See what i wrote about the budget earlier in the year

  9. Ah, Cllr Worrow has emerged.

    What happened to your post "With friends like them, whats changed?"? I posted a comment saying you should name these people but you didnt approve it, instead adding a comment to your entry that there was a campaign against you...

    As far as I know, Ive never had a problem with you before and I know of no campaign against you.

  10. Ah ladies and gentlemen, we do seem to have caused a stir now don’t we. I wonder when the last time was that Michael or Readit took such objection to an opposition press release – or indeed Michael edited to exclude information from the release as he has done on his press release blog.Thanks to Tony Flaig for being honest enough to reproduce the whole release.

    Your straight ratio calculations are flawed, in that there are relationships around the length of time people park for on different sites. It is entirely possible to have a loaded % coming from particular areas, if there is a higher incidence of short term parking in that area, for whatever reason.

    The figures, I assure you, are entirely accurate, and I am somewhat surprised to hear Cllr Worrow not acknowledging that, given he had a private briefing on the subject last week, which would have presented those figures to him. He may not like the conclusions, but should really acknowledge their existence.

    The free parking figures are simply derived. If you take the least used car parks on a Saturday in each of the four towns and one village (editing error there for which I apologise), then the cost of making them available is going to be less than opening the currently more popular car parks – this is not rocket science.

    This is entirely in line with Mary Portas thinking, in making car parking available cheaper in and around town (and one village) centres to encourage trade on the traditionally busiest shopping day each week. If it works, and the budget allows, it could be further extended over time, whilst keeping the overall budget balance.

    I repeat, we left in place a plan to help 5 shopping areas, which costs only marginally more than the cost of helping one promoted at full council. Sometimes, you have to govern for all the area, not just one special bit - isn’t that the basis of the Ramsgate gentlemen’s ongoing complaint about fairness?

  11. So you have two Conservative and now 'shadow' cabinet members prepared to engage and discuss, which Is not unusual. So perhaps someone of equal influence on the Labour team can articulate their thinking on the subject?

  12. Time to withdrawn Councillor free parking permits/ expenses should save a few bob and at least make them pay the same as the rest of the public.Trust them to produce accurate figures, why should we trust any who benefit from free parking permits and expenses and who supposedly serve us.

  13. We need to take a leaf out of these peoples book and stop paying them full stop.

  14. Readit and Anon of 0734 are trying to define a mathematical relationship between the number of parking spaces and the likely cost/income from them. If you have spaces in one area that are used for shorter periods of time, ie the first half hour; and compare this with an area where people park for longer ie for an hour or more, straight ratios between spaces and income will not work - and it is entirely possible that a gift of a free half hour will then cost differently to the budget in different places.

    Readit also is mistaken in extrapolating the spaces in Birchington high street seperately in the way he has. The motion to council wants high street and car parks to all have a free half hour.

    Finally, there is a cost difference between the ways you offer free parking. A free half hour anywhere has to be patrolled and enforced as if it were paid to prevent abuse, so offers no cost saving in enforcement. A free offer in a particular car park ona particular day requires no enforcement, and thus frees resources for Readit's wish to enforce other parking areas more effectively.

    There is no certainty in the current economic climate that a free half hour will encourage people to stay longer and spend more money in high streets. The free saturday parking scheme may well be an excellent way of testing the assumption without the cost implications of enforcement noted above.

  15. So Chris Wells tries to give an explanation but supplies no hard facts. Until he does his explanation is just worthless.
    The figures do not appear to be real.
    Simple things like total parking revenue, total revenue for Birchington, no of parkers, how many they expect to park free and finally how many extra visitors they expect with free parking.
    Its facts we want not waffle.
    Could it be that the figures in the press release are just made up and for the sake of just a few thousand rather than the £50,000 quoted for Birchington, the tories have lost control of the council?

  16. Please do not try and give facts to Cllr Worrow, his main concern is not parking it is Cllr Worrow, he has gone out on a limb, he has betrayed the electorate and the Party that put him up for Election. Parking in Birchington was Cllr Cohen's aim until he and Worrow formed an "alliance" and Worrow has assumed the "parking mantle"

  17. Chris, with you all the way on Michael and Readit now showing their political colours. Have long suspected the apolitic claims of the one and the independent stance of the other. Both, even if inadvertently, engage in Labour rhetoric with a constant stream of criticism of the Conservatives.

    Be interesting to see how vociferous they are in their comments when Labour start to screw up on a few things.

  18. Like myself, Michael often praises our Tory MPs while slamming the Tories at TDC...

  19. Reenee. I don't think either Michael or Ken have displayed Labour sympathies in their comments on this issue. The explanation given at first was somewhat confusing but once Chris had shed the Tory hat we got a much clearer explanation of the situation. I now completely understand the maths and have told Chris so elsewhere. I expect that your two bogiemen will do likewise.
    Michael has been holding the Council to account for several years. For those years it has been a Tory Council so to the biased eye it looks as if Michael has it in for the Tories. As your kind often point out Opposition in the last few years has consisted of a lot of hot air - criticised by both bogiemen. I think you need to wind your neck in a bit and see how both react once we have something concrete to criticise.
    And before you consign me to the Labour Party scrapheap I ought to tell you that I have been a card-carrying Conservative all my life - probably longer than you!

  20. Well, you could have fooled me, Tim, and elsewhere I see you are being called a Troll or confused with Tom Clarke.

    All we know for sure is that Clive Hart is Labour, Simon and Chris are Tories, Ian Driver is the red under the bed and John Worrow is on an ego trip. Everything else is in varying shades of grey.

    As you say, time will tell and, miracle of miracles, Christine Tongue and Norman Thomas might actually campaign against something the new Labour administration propose. I won't hold my breath on that last one.

  21. Watching the nasty, vindictive, superiority complex-driven, bile that is now being directed against Worrow by Moores and his cronies, I do wonder why anyone would want to venture into the world of politics.

    Worrow should have put himself back before the electorate, but the Tories have no moral claim to that argument whatsoever. And given a month ago no comment would have been allowed against a fellow Tory - Worrow - on Thanet Life, the double standards look sickening.

    Equally, Moores's provocative comments about leadership-related dealings look so odd against his refusal ever to discuss such matters when they relate to his Tory Party.

    What a ****.

  22. I'm inclined to agree 06:02, all very undignified! Why don't they just meet up or phone or email or something? What an embarassment the TDC Tories must be to Roger Gale & Mrs Sandys!

  23. Why are we not surprised that you agree, Peter. Oh, and before you fall back on your support for the Conservative MPs, Roger Gale and Laura Sandys, how do you think they do their canvassing, leaflet distribution and run their campaigns.

    Clever boy, you guessed it, with the support and help of the TDC Tories and the North and South Thanet Conservative party members. It is called teamwork.

  24. So you think that's a dignified way for our cllrs to carry on, Tory Boy?

  25. Commie change-agent Clegg wants an end to marriage, in line with the Communist Manifesto's destruction of the family unit.

  26. Well at least Tory boy is not something we could call you is it Peter. Just how is supporting our MPs an undignified way for councillors to carry on.

    You really should get your evidently increasing confusion checked out. It could be the start of something nasty.

    PS I actually find Tory boy an improvement on Troll.

  27. You're the one confused...

    I was talking about the very public squabbling (and borderline bullying) on Dr Moores blog.

    I always vote Tory by the way, except in 1987 when I supported Neil Kinnock becuase I'd heard he was a Gene Vincent fan.

  28. Peter, whatever you may have been talking about, you appeared to be responding to a comment I made directed at you. Hence my suggestion that you are confused.

    In your search for swift reparteé it is not always clear to others what you are about.

    Pleased to hear you vote Conservative though a list of your favoured musicians may be useful so we can keep you on sides. Don't want to lose your vote by declaring our candidate's liking for Little Mix or Clem Tholet.

  29. I think the term "Troll" is mainly, if not exclusively, deployed by the rather unpleasant blog-owner of Thanet Life. It sits alongside his use of mental illness as a form of insult. A good example of caring conservatism.

    At the moment, though, he appears to be mastering his role as a drama gueen, allowing his (understandable) sour grapes to influence his already unfortunate and threatening disposition.

  30. Peter, where were you during X Factor, surely not watcghing Strictly and the doddering Brucie baby. As for Clem Tholet, put the name into your Google search and then click on one of the Youtube links. You will enjoy the pictures even if the music is not to your taste.

    By the way, he originated from a country where Cliff Richard was popular.

  31. I never watch TV apart from the occasional movie & TOTP re-runs. The last talent show I watched was 'Opportunity Knocks' (do they have a clap-o-meter on X Factor?).

  32. Mr Worrow,

    There is now a wonderfully correct feeling in Thanet that you, Sir, do not vote specifically to help your cause; but more a case of how it can heighten your profile and ego.

    As proven by this parking whatnot and soever...I am quite sure when the day comes to it you will vote against whomever if it means gaining further self preservation in the world of TDC. I have half a mind to compare you to certain Eurovision Song Contest. You'd vote only for the side that you know will not cut off your Winter fuel supply, and to top it off, making sure you do not receive "Nil Points" for, what is normally, a god awful entry.

    As for your comment that you are unwilling to respond to anonymous bloggers. You've ignored a spiffingly fine comment from the young Mr Maskell. Anyone could tell you that Mr Maskell is a real person who tends to sit in the gallery at many a meeting.

    Perhaps one has come to the conclusion that it is better to keep one's mouth closed and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt?

    We can only hope.

  33. Keep it up as I'm enjoying the banter..

    As for "mental illness as a form of insult" I have a store of 10:30 AM.. 'the Troll's' much nastier and very personal allegations, frequently involving parts of the female anatomy, together with a collection of his IP addresses collected from his overnight messages. One day he will step over the line from simple abuse such as 'Tory C**t to something a little more serious.

    I think that readers here and elsewhere are more than capable on judging his mental state. Do please note for some reason, even though he is always 'anonymous' and my remark was made a very long time ago elsewhere, it appears to have struck a raw nerve with him and one has to wonder why?

  34. Real trolls cannot be traced by their own IP sddresses dynamic or not, as they use public wireless networks.

  35. 1:24 PM, real Trolls are much maligned and misunderstood. Indeed, there is no conclusive proof that they ever ate the goats or that they lurk under bridges to leapt out on the unsuspecting.

    Mainly they are politically aware who seek to correct misinformation peddled by the bigotted supporters of sundry political parties. Their evident high regard for Nigel Farage and Dan Hannan also suggests a strong eurosceptic leaning.

    They have a deep dislike of those who present themselves as neutral, independent or apolitical in order to hide a hatred of Tories or a deep seated love of Labour like Michael, Ken Read and sundry other some time named or anonymous bloggers.

    That apart, they can be quite lovable creatures, fond of pork pie and enjoy the more intellectual exchanges between Will Scobie and Dr. M.

    You all have a good Christmas.

  36. And as if to prove the point, Thanet Life's Chief Pilot flies in with more threats and bile.

    You, too, need to take care, Councillor, as you are clearly concluding that all of the posts criticising you and the abusive posts you claim to have received are from the same person. I have criticised you here, but I have certainly never posted anything obscene or anything relating to the female anatomy. I am afraid you are wrong - again.

    There is clearly more than one person who is not a member of your fan club!

    And, just for the record, I have read several different posts on your part - and directed at apparently different posters - using mental illness as a form of insult.

    I am glad you like yourself so much, though.

  37. awesome I put-off buying this for months, despite positive reviews. I tried every free weather app going and eventually decided to take the plunge. Glad I did - easily the most customisable weather widget and clock on caftan and the skins are awesome!