Being in a pickle will soon have new meaning as residents and visitors are likely to be caught in fresh traffic jams on Margate seafront, its official, Eric Pickles MP and Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government department has reached the conclusion that the development of a Tesco Superstore should be allowed to go ahead.
Grim news for anyone living in Margate or even Thanet, the inspector assessing the appeal against this Tesco development thought "that the proposal would be unlikely to have significant adverse impact on investment, or the vitality and viability of Margate town centre".
I just wonder whether the governments inspector will be moving to Margate or Westbrook anytime soon, will he be spending time in the inevitable traffic jams along the seafront, or spending time on Margate beach reflecting on the incongruity of a hideous retail development, adding to the equally awful Arlingtion House which has blighted Margate many years.
Thanet Council and Thanet have become a byword for all that is negative in local government, the Communities and Local Government department have in my opinion by endorsing Thanet council planning committee decision have highlighted the reputation for airhead thinking and shoddy decision making we victims, know so well.
Cold comfort is added by the highly competent and inspirational leader of Thanet Council Cllr Clive Hart who had this to say “There can be no doubt that the area immediately surrounding Arlington House, which is the entrance to Margate, is an eyesore." You'll note that he doesn't mention failings of his administration and those past, in its dealings with the landlords Freshwater.
As if to add to the despondent mood of us local residents further response to another calamity as Clive added "our role now will be to get the best possible outcome for the residents of Margate and Thanet and to ensure the site complements and enhances the wider regeneration of the town.” God Help Us!
It would be unfair to just blame Labour councillors, Tory are, as inept as are independents and of course officers, elsewhere in the media Thanet council once again features in Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs column not for this one, but the extraordinary waste of approximately three and half million pounds gifted to a foreign ferry company and of course begs the question why no council officers have resigned or the cosy consensus of Cllr Bob Bayford (tory leader) and Clive who secretly agreed a very shaky multi million pound credit facility with little hope of repayment unless you include Bob Hope and no hope.
Anyhow we can count ourselves lucky, nobody has proposed building a flipping abattoir or sighting a blimin scapyard on Marine Terrace lets hope neither Clive and Bob are ever put to the test eh!
Other reading The Grocer, Telegraph, Facebook, FT, Kentnews, Arlington Margate
Other reading The Grocer, Telegraph, Facebook, FT, Kentnews, Arlington Margate
Tony, I've seen you shopping in the Tesco in Westwood Cross! Surely it would be better for the people in or near Margate to shop in Margate rather than out of town?
ReplyDeleteYes of course I'm frequently to be found in Tesco westwood, but more often in Northdown road.
DeleteI will continue to shop at tesco while they offer the best quality, service and value, or until Asda improve or reach retirement and stroll slowly around the isles of Sainsburys, occasionally picking up a tin of food examining it then replacing it on the shelf.
Still Tesco offering the best food retail product wont make a supermarket on Margate front anymore desirable.
It's not on the seafront, it's around the corner next to the industrial estate. Buy a map!
DeleteI think it will be more than visible from the seafront suggest even if you happen to be one of those airheads with your snout in the trough, it might be worth taking a second look.
DeleteUnfortunately people like you anon 13 22 don't represent the publc buts its muppets like you who run things.
Well said Tony.
DeleteIn my view, the problems in Thanet do not lie with the developers and nor does they lie with the council. The problems lies with the people who live here.
ReplyDeleteThere is a vociferous minority who are determined to promote any form of development on the false premise that all developments equal jobs. The evidence is all to the contrary. We have been dumped with a disused hoverport, a redundant ferry-port, a useless airport. None of these things have produced the economic regeneration which was promised for them and none have produced anything like the numbers of jobs which were promised. Now, we are being asked to accept a large Tesco store which will blight Margate's seafront.
Whilst it is true that people will work in this store those jobs will simply be shifted from other food retailers. Thanet will not eat more food just because you build a new store.
What can or should be done about it? Well, there is currently a relatively small pool of people who are prepared to brave the abuse they receive to promote intelligent debate about these issues and to try to shape a better way forward for the Isle. We need far more people who live here and want to see the area improve, to get involved and to give these brave souls more backing. If the people of Margate don't want a Tesco store in this location they should get off their backsides and stop it. They should tell the SoS, who doesn't live here, to take a running jump. Unfortunately, in my experience the people of Margate will not get off their backsides. They will just let the development go ahead and will moan about it later: "Somebody should do something."
Well said Tony and Anon 14:30. A Tesco on Margate seafront is unbelievably foolish.
DeleteBoris airport on Goodwin Sands, the airport development linked on to coast to resurrect the 1974 survey showing viability of Pegwell being at the centre of the largest "Natural" enclosed harbour in the world. Pipeline delivery from Pegwell to an oil refinery at Manston.
DeleteWho in the Thanet mafia of the mediocre knew about the 1974 harbour feasibility surveys and didn't want a bar of industrialization?
Grant aid in the 90s to a company who admitted to having continually lost market share for a decade. As Anon above wrote to forlornly sustain jobs in Thanet.
Widespread apathy as evidenced by the numbers (Running into several hundreds) calculated to have knowledge, that is compulsorily reportable under Common Law and Statute, who have elected Realm betraying silence. Always expecting someone else (usually a DFL) to sort things out whilst the Thanetian hides his cowardly head. The Thanetians emerge every so often spitting vitriol against the person who is doing the right thing, doing what they should have done but didn't have the backbone.
That is the truth of Thanet. Who in their right mind would invest in Thanet unless they brought with them a heap of good people to improve the local gene pool.
This objection once again demonstrates that big business is considered to be the enemy of the class warrior.
ReplyDeleteJohn,, are you implying Manton Airport is big business? I know builders who employ half a dozen peopl who have bigger turnovers.
DeleteWestwood has killed the Thanet towns as shopping destinations. I don't think it mattes what else you throw at margate by way of large supermarkets. It just makes the inevitable happen more quickly.
I think you've got a group of people in Thanet who are of a certain age, limited life experiences to call upon when looking at a problem as complex as Thanet. They think their mate the estate agent - who care about turnover, nothing else - or their mate the local entrepreneur know everything. Unfortunately, you've got to take a wide view on things, and too many in these towns are narrow minded.
Manston airport of course could be a huge success........if gatwick, stansted, city and heathrow did not exist.
Port ramsgate could Hoover up the cross channel business if dove r closed for business and the Chunnel flooded.
And if course margate would still be a thriving seaside destination for day trippers if dreamland was still in operation.
I read some old news articles from the time Westwood cross was being debate. A councillor made the comment that "men's fashion chains were hard to attract to Thanet with eh currently retail centres." It's hardly feckin Milan now, is it. Another roaring success for the progressive minds supporting what you might call big business. I call it narrow minds and the wrong development for the area. Tesco at Arlington will be the latest to join the list. A long list.
So anon, what would you rather have INSTEAD of Manston Airport, Ramsgate Harbour, Westwood Cross & Arlington House? Farmland?
DeleteWell said 08:45 and one of the posts belows highlights how mist of these schemes have been supported by the elderly or doley's with little experience of anything.
DeleteManston will be farmland again - and MOD firestation. Ramsgate Port may get another operator or close. WC will be limited in development and Arlington demolished and redeveloped. All will create some jobs (probably more than has been lost already through inept town planning) and allow other sectors to flourish.
So now we shouldn't listen to old people or young people, eh?
DeleteI see today in the press there is talk about closing wormwood scrubs, pentonville. We've got plenty of crims down here. How about a ruddy great prison? Would employ hundreds in well paid jobs, its a growth industry, Eco friendly ( I understand they use a low water use toilet system - the slop bucket) and would see more traffic than Manston Airport ever has.
DeleteKent International Prison. Discovery Park Open Prison. Westwood Shoplifters prison. Birchington Geriatric Prison. And we could just cut out e middle man and put bars and locks on TDC offices.
Yesss!!! And let's have Ian Driver in charge as he is Thanet's only HONEST councillor!!!
DeleteEnter one of the vociferous developers' friends.
ReplyDeleteGood news I work for tesco and I live about 30seconds from the new store
ReplyDeleteThe Arlington House Margate blog is now refusing comments and has hidden all of the previous comments! Surely this has nothing to do with the fact that most commentators there SUPPORTED Eric Pickles' decision?
ReplyDeleteNO TDC cllrs have spoken out against this decision so far, not even Moores or Driver!
ReplyDeleteSimon Moores has stated on twitter that he approves of this as it means Tesco are unlikely to appeal in Westgate! NIMBYism at it's most extreme!!!
DeleteI think you'll find that the problem in Thanet is the tiny vociferous minority who are determined to protest about any and all developments that aren't a gallery or community centre, paid for with magic beans so that council tax doesn't have to go up.
ReplyDeleteThey have killed or tried to kill EVERY advance in Thanet for 20years plus. FINALLY the majority are tired of them, and are taking control of the future!
So which side are you on John, Happy with the likely traffic chaos and the Tesco Logo attached to a bland rectangle of steel cladding dominating both the backdrop of Margate beach and looming large over the resuscitated Dreamland or a bit miffed that efforts to revive Margate are going trashed for some retailer?
DeleteJohn you seem to be an apologist for the status quo, your analysis of the Transeuropa ferries crisis is nothing if not extraordinary, Thanet council rents out berthing facilities, apparently fails to secure the debt and I guess fail to get credit reports.
John if you ever have property to rent please let me know since your attitude is nothing if not refreshing going by your logic, I could rent a property from you not pay for it for three years, in the meantime you'd sit by complacent and be content when I welch on the deal.
Finally John what is this thing with Cllr Ian Driver?
Tony is only worried about his journey home from work taking 5 minutes longer!
DeleteAnd what would be wrong with that I realise that you and other 9 17 are happy to put big business and incompetent local councils before community I'm not
DeleteI'm sure the mrs will warm up your sausages, burgers, chips, eggs, beans, fried slice and black pudding if you're late home Tony!
DeleteTraffic chaos Tony? Unlikely with only 18,000 cars (the vast majority that WANT this development) is highly unlikely. Dreamland is HIGHLY unlikely to get of the ground, and even if it does, having a Tesco next door can only enhance footfall that could be attracted to dreamland in it's 46week off season.
DeleteNot at all Tony, I am a businessman and a realist. Any decent businessman maximises his opportunity of income. I am surprised that the simple situation that faced TDC in realtion to TEF is so difficult for you to understand. It's really very simple;
Refuse to help TEF = TEF fails = no operator to take it's place = CERTAIN loss of £3.4mill
Help TEF = possibility of payout in the future = possible income of £3.4 mill = possible loss of £3.4mill
It's really business 101, do EVERYTHING you can to secure income. How do you think the credit report would have looked for a company that came to TDC as it was in trouble! Don't be so naive!
I'm afraid your "logic" is DEEPLY flawed! Don;t pay your rent I will have you replaced in 8 weeks, now lets see, where could i find a new ferry company....
I don't suffer fools and/or bullshitters, Driver is the epihomy of both. easy one that.
Sorry John you don't understand, the concept of getting a return on a capitol asset, not only is it a simple matter of not collecting rent, money has I understand been spent in maintaining the facilities at some cost such as dredging. Good money after bad or non existent in this case.
DeleteSimple maybe, lets hope you're not in the property business or banking John.
The local council and its officers have a duty to protect the interests of taxpayer somenthing they've not shown much skill in my opinion. Over Arlington, Pleasurama or Ramsgate Harbour.
Perhaps a look in the mirror John "I don't suffer fools and/or b***********"
Three years is a long time in politics and business we've yet to have an inquiry on Ramsgate or hear from the likes of Martin Wise.
In the meantime I'm planning a massive expansion of Bignews Margate, so that I can investigate inept local government, if Thanet council could see a way to advance a mill or three I promise to create jobs
If only tenants could be removed in 8 weeks I;m afraid the law really doesn't work that quickly
DeleteBig business is always seen as the enemy by the class warrior.
ReplyDeleteNo Simon Moores wrote that Tesco are unlikely to appeal in Westgate" because of two stores within two miles already. I do so love the efforts of the "stitch-up' trolls!
ReplyDeleteSo does this mean that you're against it and that you're going to speak up about it during a council meeting? I thought not.
DeleteSimon Moores is I think goes with the flow, never likely to stand against the herd, hence he is happy to oppose tesco/sainsbury in Westgate but not at Arlington, since his colleagues in the council have done little if anything over the yrears to see that the current Arlington development maintained in good order.
DeleteThat's because he represents the majority of voters. You might not like it Tony, but it's called democracy!
DeleteI think not 9 56, let's face the facts, Thanet council has over the years been involved in many a fiasco, and despite your faith in democracy, lets face it few people vote and many areas routinely return either Labour or Conservative members based on the population those areas with a significant working population will vote tory and those high numbers of welfare dependent vote Labour, and the candidate is pretty insignificant.
DeleteYou should make yourself clearer Simon...
Delete"Simon Moores @SimonMoores 15 Jun
If you live in Westgate, the Tesco Arlington decision for Margate may be reason for the supermarket not to appeal the Station Rd refusal"
"Simon Moores @SimonMoores 15 Jun
@purpleohms I'm a WESTGATE councillor and so from my local perspective it helps support the refusal in Station Road"
What you said on Twitter seemed to be the epitome of NIMBYISM, more so that you didn't really care at all what happened in Margate as a WESTGATE Councillor you only had to worry about your localised electorate without any care about what possible knock on effects a Tesco at Arlington may have on other parts of Thanet.
Haha, Rob was continuously kissing Simon's backside when he was opposed to the Westgate Tesco, and now he's crying like a baby! Get over it, it's going to happen! Still, you can always support Driver lol!!!
DeleteA crybaby... hardly, someone who thinks that Margate can do better than a Tesco... yes!
DeleteEveryone harps on about Arlington looking a mess and all they can do is hope that Tesco will clean it up, heaven forbid that we expect our elected officals and expensive Council officers to do their jobs and hold Freshwater to account!
Maybe everyone is happy that for the last god knows how many years Freshwater has reneged on its contract with TDC and deliberately and illegally withheld access to public land and parking facilities?
So bright boy anon 23:02 lets assume that Dreamland opens in 2014 and the Turner Centre continues to draw the crowds (in excess to any envisaged at any point by TC itself) that it has to date where exactly do all these people park their cars? what about coaches?
Never mind, TDC will just triple the price of the pay and displays and rape residents as well as visitors.
We have car parks in Dreamland, Mill Lane, College Square & at the back of The Winter Gardens (a little known FREE car park for coaches). Failing that, they can obviously use Tesco car park for a hour or two.
DeleteNothing to say one-o-cock nob?
DeleteDid you think up one-o-cock nob all by yourself, Anon 22:59? Seriously impressed at your intellect, tee hee!
DeleteShow me a busy thriving town and I will show you traffic chaos. If you want one then the second just follows.
ReplyDeleteAnon, people in Thanet want jobs, flourishing economy and tourism all without any regeneration, no airport, no Tesco, basically, no nothing and even the Turner they described as a white elephant. Trouble is, most of the whinge fraternity are either retired or fully employed on benefits protesting so change just disturbs their lifestyle.
DeleteWow, even most of the commentators on the blogs want this to happen now! Looks like Louise Oldfield and her NIMBYs are yesterday's news!
ReplyDeleteHH ave the local knobs, woken to blogging I see even the usually inactive and ancient mp Roger Gale has chipped with support for tesco according to Moores.
DeleteGiven the multi-million balls up with pleasurama Ramsgate harbour and of coarse council negligence with Arlington are Tories trying mushy the waters with black propaganda...
If "ancient" people's opinion doesn't count then perhaps Christine Tongue should shut up too.
Delete21 33 Yes it does seem that consevatives locally are covering their bottoms for years of inept service. Still as to Sir Roger, yes he is getting on a bit, but look on the bright side, a he is showing us that you can hold down a job past retirement age a goal of Labour and Conservatives even if is only sitting on your bottom in parliament and B surely even he will be retiring come the next election.
DeleteI was at the "protesters meeting" at 7am for Radio Kent this morning, and there were just two people there - and one of them supported it! "People Power", eh?
DeleteMy personal campaign against Tesco will take the form of not shopping there. I already have a number of alternatives and the best way of indicating my disapproval is not to use the store.
ReplyDeleteGood for you, and I won't be staying in your hotel.
DeleteInterestingly, the village of Westgate received nearly 2000 signatures on their anti-Tesco petition, yet the whole of Margate & the surrounding areas only managed a quarter of that for the anti-Arlington Tesco petition. What does that tell you?
If someone from the anti crowd comes up with a better plan for Arlington than the tesco development that is viable, affordable, practical and logical then I'm sure we would all be happy to listen, so far I've heard nothing.
ReplyDeleteOver to you Tony, Louise and others.......
Simples... get Freshwater to uphold their end of the contract that they signed that gives them control of public land, retail space and car parking facilities for the next 100 odd years.
DeleteNo public money just Freshwater's!
You refuse to even discuss the fact that Westgate received 4 times as many signatures against their tiny Tesco as Margate did for this. Why is this, are you in denial?
DeleteNope, I'm in Westgate.. Egypt is too far away!
DeleteStill sulking diddums?
DeleteSulking? hardly, we now have to wait and see what the High Court says.
DeleteI'll strike a bargain with you... I'll answer your question if you answer mine, seeing as I made the point first.
Why are you, a taxpayer, not up in arms that TDC has repeatedly let Freshwater off the hook for being in breach of its agreement and allowed Arlington and the surrounding area to fall into such a poor state?
Why aren't you angry that the most work done to Arlington and the surrounding area was completed the other week when empty shops were painted white and pull down shutters black?
The question still applys, WHY was the lease never enforced, many times i have asked this question and never ever got an answer, i now presume that the carpeting contracts went to a thanet Co and of course the very longest serving margate councillor would not want the boat rocked, i maintain that Freshwood are SLUM landlords, they created Arlington to look like a dump, we really need to ask again and again why the lease was never enforced, or has someone local got friends in the slum landlord freshwater. this stinks as much as pleasurama, your comments by return,, please
ReplyDeleteI have dealt with Freshwater in London and the maintenance of buildings they lease there is equally minimal. No more than is absolutely necessary with communal areas invariably left in an appalling state. Thus Freshwater failings are not unique to Thanet. Indeed, Greenwich Borough Council in my experience were no more successful in getting this property company to meet its commitments. Are we therefore to assume that the LB of G are also corrupt?
DeleteNot corrupt then, inept?
DeleteSo still no credible alternative ideas for the Arlington site other than what has been proposed?
ReplyDeleteI'm no big fan of large supermarket chains but without this Tesco development the Arlington site and the block would remain an eyesore for years to come, don't forget that the construction industry is still really struggling and the banks will not be lending for many years yet to come.
Hotel and conference centre?
ReplyDeleteCertain B&B owners don't want the competition!
DeleteSeafront cafes/amusements and a larger Dreamland with gardens
ReplyDeleteNot everything has to be a building. Or paving.
Hotel? 2 new hotels opened in Margate recently and Premier Inn 100 yards away. a seafront cafe is in the plans and we have more than enough amusements arcades already, larger Dreamland was not in the heritage plans and residential development was always going to happen with or without Tesco, gardens would be nice but always a non starter on prime building land.
ReplyDeleteIt's great that Westgate had such a motivated Cllr in Simon Moores in opposing
ReplyDeleteTesco, such a shame though that the shop he was mainly supporting have now put up a hidious new sign that does not conform in any way with the conservation area
It's in.This sign needs conservation planning approval, if Cllr Moores was playing with a straight bat on this he would reject the application (if and when submitted)
What's most upsetting is that SM has conveniently turned a blind eye to this!
I suppose every vote counts,
I used to like Margate town centre many years ago. However, I agree that WWC did kill Margate town centre and now Ramsgate too. Both are now full of empty shops, budget stores, and one or two food stores. As for Tesco, to be honest it may not be ideal but I think a Tesco near the centre of town is much better and will drive footfall to the town centre than one in Westwood Cross. If it's blended in with a redvelopment of Dreamland as a heritage park then surely that's a good thing isn't it. Re: The comment about Dover closing. Forget that, won't ever happen. Still on the positive side isn't it good that the Turner's Gallery, and Portas money and publicity and the hard work of Margate Town Centre business people are now leading to many long empty shops reopening in the town centre. I believe the old River Island site is now let as is Woolworth's, that is a good thing despite losing Argos, F. Hinds and Burton. It's a start. Margate will never be what it was a rival to Canterbury for shopping as it was pre Westwood Cross and especially up until BHS left the Primark site in 1991. It's sad but you have to move forward. Anything surely is better than a derelict town centre. PS. Demolish Arlington House, it's awful.
ReplyDeleteMargate a rival to Canterbury, where do you get them because it has to be the funniest gag in an age. I remember Margate in its prime and, even then, it was very much second choice to Canterbury for serious shopping. At least WWC has drawn some trade back into Thanet, so it is not all bad.
Delete