In a letter to the Thanet Gazette, the well tested and flawed argument that Thanet council is not responsible or negligent for the loss of revenue, from Ramsgate harbour following it's decision to allow an unsecured, multi million debt to accrue with TransEuropa ferries, councillor Everitt has changed tack, stating that "Sadly, Mr Driver is not a reasonable person." ( Rather discourteous not to refer to he as councillor Driver) Cllr Driver is generally quite passionate about his politics and just like most of us is shocked at the casual attitude of those privy to the TransEuropa finance arrangements kept secret until recently.
No surprise that Cllr Everitt, falls to mention that not to long ago, presumably he, along with his leader Clive Hart, fully supported Labour's decision to support Cllr Ian Driver as a Candidate in Northwood over Mark Nottingham a hard working loyal long time Labour member.
In my view if Rick Everitt, thinks he is correct why doesn't he accuse his fellow councillors, those other independents who've also criticised Thanet council of not being reasonable persons, why I think he doesn't, is because those others, are perceived as moderate sensible people.
Now before diehard labour dinosaurs, bleat as they invariably do about me being mean to them, I have to say that Conservatives have to take as much blame (as a party that represents the business community) for TransEuropa there should have been someone with wit to understand the implications of not securing, what became an open ended credit arrangement.
It's clear that other creditors took steps to secure at least some of the money, including the port authorities of Ostend, why our council failed to protect taxpayers money is frankly a complete mystery.
In Cllr Everitt's letter he quite rightly suggests that it is reasonable for the council to look at all options for Ramsgate harbour, still unreasonably, he and others of his ilk refuse to accept that money had been lost, failing to understand that just because TDC didn't give money to TransEuropa, they did give them use of a capital asset owned by the community and no doubt continued send money on maintenance.
Going by the of Everitt, Clive Hart, Bob Bayford, Sue Mcgonical, those of you who rent property, hire cars, etc need not feel to concerned about running up debts and being expected to pay up.
The argument that we have somehow benefited, by allowing TransEuropa to trade while apparently insolvent is nonsense in my opinion, and the more labour argue the case the more stupid it seems, presumably TDC would have buried their heads in the sand, until the end of time.
Instead of insulting the intelligence of public, those who agreed to unsecured credit which amounts to a loan of your money, let's have some candour.
Finally had the council either had the smarts or indeed minimal business skills to secure revenues owed, or pulled the plug three years ago there is a clear possibility that money could have been generated by attracting another solvent operator.
I suggest Mr Everitt consider who he represents, his consitutents or himself his colleagues in the Labour party/ Conservative councillors and of course well paid officers who presumably allowed the debt to mount uncontrolled.
failure to receive rental money whilst allowing the use of the facilities will lead to lost opportunities to utilise the rental proceeds for the use of the community. In year 2013/2014 this has led to a readjustment of the budget to the tune of £826K, it is called slippage however what it means is there will not be the money to spend on projects due to lost revenue. If true for this year that will be the same for previous tax years.
ReplyDeleteWhilst I am no fan of the present Labour administration, I did understand the logic of the case presented in Rick Everitt's letter. As for Ian Driver being passionate, the trouble with him is he is constantly changing the side to be passionate about. It is not so many years ago that, as a Scargill lieutenant, he was campaigning to save the coal fields. Now he is opposed to all fossil fuels. One is never quite sure which side Cllr Driver is on, but with Cllr Everitt at least he is always Labour.
ReplyDeletedefines it as "the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen". Opportunity cost is a key concept in economics, and has been described as expressing "the basic relationship between scarcity and choice".[2] The notion of opportunity cost plays a crucial part in ensuring that scarce resources are used efficiently.[3] Thus, opportunity costs are not restricted to monetary or financial costs: the real cost of output forgone, lost time, pleasure or any other benefit that provides utility should also be considered opportunity costs.In other words what did TDC forego when they allowed TEF to avoid paying their mooring fees?
DeleteWilliam, Ramsgate harbour and it's infrastructure exists therefore, attempts should be made to market it. However everitts comments do nothing for the credibility of himself or any of the others involved in this monumental cock up.
ReplyDeleteThe more I read about council officers obstructing some councillors while aiding and assisting labour members the more it becomes clear that officers need to be investigated.
Tony, if you are referring solely to officers failure to assist Cllr Driver I think it is fair to say that he has lost all credibility in council circles and it is hardly surprising his request are met with suspicion.
DeleteIn other respects I would agree with you and a more open style of governance would do much to restore confidence in TDC, whoever is in charge. Guess we can only speak as we find, but, as a parish councillor, I have always found the TDC officers most helpful on the few occasions I have had to contact them and I am most definitely NOT Labour.
I understand that Cllr Driver is alleging that council officers have refused to give him information that they willing gave to a journalist.
DeleteIt should not be the case that officers should act on prejudice, but that seems as though it is the case, perhaps Sue McGonical should look at a possible bias and discrimination on political affiliation.
The way that councillor Driver has been obstructed in trying to get to the bottom of the Pleasurama and harbour fiascos is disgraceful. We elected Driver and he is acting on our behalf in seeking to get at the truth. As an elected representative he is entitled to full and unconditional co-operation from officers of the council. The only reason they are obstructing him is that other councillors are allowing them to do so to score political points. In other words, they are using the issue for political gain rather than acting in our best interests. It really doesn't matter if "his requests are met with suspicion" He is elected and is entitled to the answers he asks for. William Epps pathetic attempts to justify the conduct of officers and other councillors is just an example of how low these people are prepared to go with their silly political games.
ReplyDeleteI think you will find that Cllr Driver was elected by Labour voters in Northwood Ward and, as he is now effectively campaigning against a Labour administration, I very much doubt there is any support for him amongst those who gave him their 'X.'
DeletePresumably, 16:49, if you are part of the 'we' who elected him you must be claiming to be a Labour voter living in Northwood. Why do I doubt that or could it be the whiff of Green that permeates your comment, Tim?
As I understand it, Allan, Cllr Driver plans to publish the 2008 Environment Agency response to FOi concerning Sericol ground water and chalk block contamination plume.
DeleteIs there direct abstraction of water for commercial use in his ward ? If he pursues that issue then he will have taken up a public health concern so far dodged by the other parties.
A question is the drawback catchment for ground water to be remediated. And if it is right that the radius extends to beyond the Rumfields water abstraction plant which has been shut off since 1993. If the drawback is of that radius then surely it means that the Thor and Sericol remediations are drawing back ground water from the others' catchment ?
Mixed solvents and mercury mixing with cyclohexanone contaminations ? And the question of whether this is the cocktail being abstracted for commercial use.
The discovery of the Sericol contamination in the 90s is an example not of just information being withheld from Labour cllrs but of misleading accounts being given. Labour cllrs were told there was a surface leak found in the short term before it reached aquifer. And the first the Labour cllr knew he had been lied to was 15 years later when I copied the FOI response to him.
The aspects of obscuring the history continued past the turn of the century and into a Standards Process. Clearly there were three strands of evidence, subject to statutory duties to report under Terrorism Act 2000, concealed from Standards Cttee and later from Full Council.
But a good case can be made for a fourth concealed strand. Cyclohexanone. Definite chemical used by criminal back street drugs labs. But it is highly dangerous in tunnels, sewers and underground systems. And explosive on contact with hydrogen peroxide or nitric acid. The fact is Sericol stock taking could not say how much may have been stolen. And the 30 year leakage explanation is but one available explanation. The leak to ground may have been far shorter term and used to obscure thefts.
That latter possibility would naturally raise questions of the qualifications of Sericol's site safety engineer(s) 1988 to 1998 ?
And that is a question extending to Thanet tories very own Nice One Cyril !
Happily the High Court in a 1998 libel case should have visited this issue (still affecting Thanet today as the water abstraction is still turned off). Perhaps Allan you could ask your perfectly decent cllr friend what he told the High Court in evidence ?
Richard
Richard,
DeleteAs you would appear to dismiss the possibility of nice councillors it would seem to be most unlikely that I could then count one amongst my friends. Maybe, like the US, I only have interests which would certainly not extend to what some body told the high court donkey's years ago.
But what do you think of the contamination that Richard's detailed Allan? You're often pointing out that neither Sericol, Thor nor Manston have pollution problems?
DeleteSorry. I am about to moan. I read the piece here and got excited. "Someone else sees it as well". The TDC Blame Game.The tactic is simple. Rather than tackle an issue, attack someone else. I may produce a 'play along game' for the next full meeting. But as the era of détente is with us with Bayford offering no notable "opposition" because his house is partly responsible for the mess, the traditional blue/red fighting is transposed to the fringes. In this case, the one councillor who is the only formal opposition to the TDC equilibrium. Which is clearly warped.
ReplyDeleteHooray - I think. A well written and incite-full piece that hits a number of nails on the head.
And then you get to the comments. And I do not refer to all of them but some of them.
You can see the 'TDC Game' being played above. And it stifles democracy and simply turns it into "he said/she aid" playground politics - a dysfunctional council system.
Can we not rise above this level of debate and actually try to tackle the issues? Less political point scoring. More point scoring for the good of the Island.
Duncan, might have been helpful if you had identified precisely where you see the TDC game being played rather than broad brush, but unspecified, criticism of others comments.
DeleteYou talk of playground politics, but by whom? Surely you are not still trying to pretend that Ian Driver actually represents anyone or has a mandate to do anything. If you are, suggest you have a chat with the Labour voters in Northwood.
In Duncan's defense replace TDC with political and you see what is happening. Someone is trying to get to the bottom of why Tory and Labour both missed out on £800K per annum. Money had it been available could have been spent on the voters of Thanet. Driver seems to be the only one asking questions but because he has upset the staus quo his questions are ignored because it is driver asking. Allan do you not want to know why for example the debt wasn't secured. Seems Ostend in the same situation did secure the debt. How about getting answers instead of attacking the questioner?
DeleteI am not convinced that knowing why the debt was not secured is going to change anything now. All one can hope for is that lessons have been learned and that any future business transactions by TDC will show a bit more acumen.
DeleteAs for Driver, he should have resigned when he left the Labour party and offered himself in Northwood for re-election. The same should apply to anyone who deserts the banner they were elected under, otherwise they are holding office under false pretences.
Allan in the end it doesnt matter whether you think it makes any difference but what the entire electorate of Thanet think of the business practices of TDC playing at being in business. No one will learn the lessons of the past until the right examination of the facts take place. Are you saying that utterances of TDC from both parties should be taken at face value as truth. If that is what you think then you are somewhat naive. In the end it doesn't matter who asks the questions so maybe you should be asking your councillor.
DeleteAnon 22:30
DeleteHow do you know what the whole electorate of Thanet think?
Allan I never stated what the "entire electorate of thanet think" all I said was that what the entire electorate think is important. They may believe ferrygate was an unmitigated disaster or they may not. you are one person and in the end what one person thinks is overall unimportant. We may possibly not know but then the electorate may make their point in the local elections in 2015.
DeleteDriver was elected. In this country we do not have a system of proportional representation and we elect the individual. He was elected and so, he is acting on our behalf. The comments by Duncan Smithson are part of the silly political game that is being played. You won't find a person in Thanet (outside of the councillors themselves) who doesn't want to know who is responsible for the Transeuropa fiasco. The pretence that Driver isn't speaking on behalf of the vast majority is breathtaking in its stupidity and arrogance. We are heading for a huge crisis in Thanet because the Tory and Labour councillors are so far out of touch with the people who live in the area.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Tim.
Delete21:20
DeleteHe was elected as the Labour candidate. No one elected a Green Party councillor to the district council so he is acting under false pretences. Let him stand next time under the Green banner, or whichever other party he has switched to by then, and see if he gets elected. I will certainly not be putting money on it.
He is no more acting under false pretences than any of his predecessors who have switched from being independent to Tory or Labour and vice versa. If you don't like the system change it, but as it stands, we elect the individual and Driver IS elected. No other elected representative and no officer of the council is entitled to obstruct him in asking questions on our behalf. You are just playing petty politics with a serious issue. Are you a councillor?
DeleteNo I am not a councillor and I am not playing petty politics because I believe all those who switch after being elected, whether that is Driver, Worrow or Wiltshire, should offer themselves for re-election. They used a party machine and money to get where they are and that has to be false pretences.
DeleteAnd Driver WILL have to put himself up for re-election, when the next election is held. As I said before, if you don't like that system then change it, but right now it's the system we've got. You can't keep harping on about Driver changing parties as if it somehow excuses the appalling behaviour of the other councillors in allowing officers to obstruct his enquiries. He is an elected councillor and he is seeking answers to legitimate questions. Failure to provide him with full and frank answers is an affront to democracy.
DeleteP.S. At this moment I wouldn't be at all surprised if Drive DID get re-elected. Just about everyone I speak to is fed up with this shower of sh*t. So what would your opinion be if he did get re-elected? Would he then be entitled to answers or would you come up with another spurious reason for preventing him from doing the job that he was elected to do?
Anon, if he was honestly elected under whatever banner he flies by 2015 then, yes, he would deserve recognition as a councillor at least. Thereafter what support he got from the council officers would depend how he conducts himself in office.
DeleteYou simply cannot dismiss four changes of loyalties in less than three years as a measure of the man or the esteem in which he is held. You may, in what must be a very cloistered world, find that everyone you speak to supports him, but where was this support when he ran for the county council elections last year.
Allan the question is: Why is no other Councillor of any persuasion not asking the same questions?
DeleteApologies. I was referring to the comments by Alan Mallinson (if that is his name).
ReplyDeleteAt least it is more recognisable than yours.
DeleteThank you for the comments. I have enjoyed reading them. To ref; anon - I think we broadly agree. I hope that all I (and others) are doing is seeking to highlight what is going on in Thanet at the moment. Some people think its not good. The main point - excellently written - of this blog was should we try to stop the political and historical point scoring that is endemic within the structure of the Cecil Square Building. It would be good if the council could concentrate on putting Thanet first rather than their historical battles. I feel the blog - and the subsequent comments - highlighted this excellently. Good piece Tony!
ReplyDeleteJust read your piece again. Ignored all previous comments. [SORRY FOR THE FLIPPANCY]
ReplyDeleteBrilliant piece of writing that is very much in touch with the local Zeitgeist. And spot on on the detail.
People need to accept responsibility for thanets mistakes. Frankly - its not good enough for what we are paying them!
Your hit list of Rick, Clive, Bob & Sue differs from mine slightly but I understand the sentiment. Those that are responsible should face the consequences.
If they dont feel that could stand in the centre of any of the towns and listen to the people, they should stand down in shame.
Officers and politicians.
Some will stand upright and resolute.
Others will fall. The simple act of standing in front of their peers will be too much for them.
Those people that feel they exploit thanet need to leave.
So well done Tony. I enjoyed your post. It made me think about Thanet. I understand that some seek to hide behind old ploys to dismiss your thoughts, but I appreciate this level of discourse. Thank you. Great blog
TDC Hit List.csv
Delete1. JOKER - Poole
2. KING - Hart
3. QUEEN - McGonical
4. JACK - Bayford
5. TEN - Watson
6. NINE - Fenner
7. EIGHT - Ken Gregory
8. SEVEN - Seed
9. SIX - Patterson
10. FIVE - Johnson
11. FOUR - Everitt
12. THREE - Campbell
13. TWO - Wise
14. ACE - Poole
Well that was really an intelligent well thought out description of our council, but the only problem is that I do not understand what it is supposed to mean.
DeletePerhaps a council of Driver, Garbutt, Smithson, James, James (the other one), Oldfield, Old Uncle Tom Cobley and the Red Hall mob might serve us better. They could certainly be relied on to make more noise though the fighting for front place in the photo-shoots might be a bit unseemly.
I am switching from BBC Local News/ITV Meridian to Euronews on TV.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
That's the only channel -so far - where that obnoxious Driver person hasn't featured. Wonder if he will switch to UKIP for the next election. He is at least good at jumping on band wagons after they have just gone past. He truly should be put out of his misery and out of our media. PLEASE!
JB
I may not agree with your politics and I am a self confessed Tory but bloody hell you have hit the nail on the head with this one, could not agree more. They are all to blame!
ReplyDeleteWell not all most councillors were unaware since this was kept secret but since the news of thiscalamity has emerged those Labour councillors and the tory conterparts have shown themselves to be spineless sheep then they too should carry theblame.
DeleteThe way to ensure that councillors pay for the mistakes that have been made is not to elect them. Of course, you have to have an alternative and the two main parties rely on this. They simply sit back and wait for the other lot to fail so that they can be re-elected. Right now, Bayford, Wise etc. are sitting in the wings rubbing their hands together over the Transeuropa fiasco as they believe it will carry them back into office.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to change things in Thanet you have to make sure that this doesn't happen. You have to persuade people of stature to stand for election against the tired old faces who have brought us to where we are today. We desperately need a council in which the elected councillors act first and foremost in the interests of the electorate and not in the interests of their parties. In this sense Driver is doing exactly what is required. He was in a party, they tried to rein him in so he left. Now he's joined another party which is happy to allow him to express his views. If the rest of the councillors are happy to be muzzled I say they aren't doing the job they should be doing and we should get rid of them.
More correctly, Driver was in a party in order to get elected under false pretences, he then left that party, but sold his vote back to them in a hung council in order to get the chair of a committee he fancied. He since left two other groups and is now Green, anti fossil fuels which he previously supported as a Scargill disciple. If that is the kind of councillor the people of Thanet want then put your house on the market whilst there is still time.
DeleteSounds like Driver is a canny politician.
ReplyDeleteCanny politicians get elected. Driver never has under his true colours.
DeleteI infer, from your oxymoron, Anon 2030 that Cllr Driver's colours are truly "Canny" then ?
DeleteOn the fossil fuel point I suppose you don't know about the wonderful eco fuel research the miner buyout of Tower Colliery undertook on a shoe string ? (Combining coal with household waste to produce eco fuel). I should also remind you that when Betteshanger Colliery Kent was closed it was actually operating at a profit.
I infer, from your oxymoron, Anon 2030 that Cllr Driver's colours are truly "Canny" then ?
DeleteOn the fossil fuel point I suppose you don't know about the wonderful eco fuel research the miner buyout of Tower Colliery undertook on a shoe string ? (Combining coal with household waste to produce eco fuel). I should also remind you that when Betteshanger Colliery Kent was closed it was actually operating at a profit.
Which raises the question of whether the subject councillor is actually an oxymoron? He is certainly contradictory in several ways, could be described as a moron and has the build of an overweight ox.
DeleteIf Betteshanger was operating at a profit, such a shame that some of the management and staff could not organise a buy out to run it themselves as happened in Nottinghamshire.
Re:: Betteshanger the union did try a buy out
DeleteTony
ReplyDeleteOne of your finest blogs with great feed back no more to be said
Ray
Thanks for this article, It is good to find out the most of a person to avoid disappointments in the future, find a person or a person's information is not an easy task, is it easy to find your fish in the oceans? however there is software that we facilitate the work of information search, criminal records, phone numbers, address history etc if I can work them into something I'm at your service.
ReplyDeleteThanks for this article, It is good to find out the most of a person to avoid disappointments in the future, find a person or a person's information is not an easy task, is it easy to find your fish in the oceans? however there is software that we facilitate the work of information search, criminal records, phone numbers, address history etc if I can work them into something I'm at your service.
ReplyDelete