It could just work, I appreciate that odds are not entirely in favour of Manston airport and recent history has been unkind.
A lot has been stacked against Manston, much of it coming from Thanet's appalling Labour party who under Clive Hart's power at any price, strand of leadership has offered no comfort for local business, still what can you expect from a party whose main philosophy is based on handouts from those who work.
That aside, having nothing better to do, this afternoon, I thought I'd do a random comparison between flying from Heathrow and Manston, nothing too scientific, 2 x people to New York, from Manston JFK £922 dearer than Heathrow @ £851(Newark) but add in 2 x train fare rtn, £240 or similar cost for fuel and parking, then you could save yourself some stress and more than £150.
Prices obviously fluctuate, but include the convenience of a local departure, maybe this time it could work. I realise that the greatest convenience is for those of us in Thanet but given that Kent has a population of around one and half million there must be something like a quarter million living within a half hour journey.
So good luck to KLM. I know that Manston has dark forces ranged against it from DFL's (Deadbeats from London) and ecocrazies across Kent including Herne Bay residents, who assume they were young enough to have good hearing (most are in their twilight years) couldn't possibly be disturbed by air traffic at Manson.
Unbelievable tosh. Local politicians have absolutely nothing to do with the failure of Manston, and price doesn't have anything to do with it either. Manston doesn't work because it's in the wrong place. It's surrounded on three sides by water. The population on the fourth side isn't big enough to support an airport and hasn't got any money to use one anyway. The people with money live in West Kent and they have their own local airport, Gatwick. This nonsense has been going on for the last fifteen years. If the idiotic Council had bitten the bullet and agreed to closure when the MoD left we might have had something worthwhile there by now. As it is, all we have is dreamers, who still think, after fifteen years of failure, that the airport is the answer.
ReplyDeleteThe suggested airport in the Thames Estuary is surrounded by water on four sides! Having over sea approaches is surely better than, say Heathrow, with every approach over built up areas or is it just disadvantageous at Manston because the NIMBYS do not want it to succeeed.
DeleteWhat a sad lot live in Thanet. They seem to comprise 50% who want no work or progress at any price (proably because they are retired) and 50% looking for work which will never come because of the other lot.
Good article, Tony, hitting all the right buttons.
Anon Not that the local Labour leadership is overly familiar with wealth creation, do please quote an example in which Thanet Labour has attempted to promote business at Manston, it hasn't happened under Clive Harts leadership.
ReplyDeleteJust because Local leftwing activist wish to push the never ending down at heel view of Thanet, I can assure you if you look beyond Thanets militant tendency/SWP propaganda some people in locally also have deep pockets.
Something worthwhile had the airport closed? what exactly?more housing to stockpile with that flood benefit scroungers were promised by labour propagandists
New York from Margate may save you some pounds Tony but for those that do not live on Manston's doorstep the reverse is true and they need to add on the train fares etc to get to Manston. And thats the problem, there are not enough people in the catchment area to sustain an airport. With only 2 flight a day you will often also have very long waits in Amsterdam for long haul connections. One foggy mourn and your options are very limited.
ReplyDeleteThere are also plenty of airport operators around that know a good thing when they see it and at a £7 million sale price Manston is a snipe. But still no takers and I dont think its anything to do with Labour running TDC.
But its not cost KLM a lot to give it a punt and they can soon pull the plug if bookings dont materialize. A good indication that so far there are not many bookings in the fact that there are plenty of £80 tickets available,
"Some men see things as they are and say why - I dream things that never were and say why not."
DeleteWell said Tony, amongst all the tosh of the dfl's its nice to hear the voice of reason....
ReplyDeleteI would'n go as far as voice of reason but thanks much appreciated.
DeleteWhat about the cancer from air pollution at Manston?
ReplyDeleteWhat about cancer from car pollution? What about being knocked down by a bus? what about falling over the cat? what about drowning in a fish pond?
DeleteOh, and what about the aquifer, the missing monitors, the Thor site and 0% wage rises. Time for everyone, except Anon 19:57 of course, to be arrested and incarcerated for even daring to think of an airport at Manston. Much better having pesticides and cow shite washed down in the water table - mad cow disease did anyone say?
DeleteGood point Tom. Agricultural land with direct water abstraction can irrigate with water carrying Thor and Sericol contaminants and then let it rinse back carrying pesticides as well.
DeleteLaundries with direct abstraction can steam off contaminants into the lungs of their workers and neighbours. And into the laundry delivered back to customers.
Manston though ? Ain't going to happen.
And the Manston air pollution and cancer from a jumbo jet is no worse than tripping over a cat.
DeleteAnd KCC seeking £20M of tax-funds for 20 jobs last year - waste and idiocy.
Slight flaw in your pricing Tony. Your comparison is KLM to Schipol then KLM to New York. Price it again this time looking at other flights and carriers flying from Schipol to New York. Flying KLM is like flying BA so expect to pay more.
ReplyDeleteNot sure of your point out was a quick comparison and airline is not that important both were cheapest offering a sane travel time
ReplyDeleteMy point is why would you fly the same carrier (with fixed slots) from Schipol to New York when you could choose to fly with:
DeleteAer Lingus
US Airways
United Airline
Lufthansa
Air Europa
TAP Air Portugal
Turkish Airlines
Icelandair
LOT Polish
Air Canada
Iberia
or any of the others that use Schipol with different slots?
I didn't exclude just choose at random, that said the KLM option if there was choice, would be preferred since they are supporting Manston, long range travel is not an everyday occurrence here at flaig mansions, however, the best experience I've had long haul was with United.
DeleteTheir are many determining factors in the past I've looked at the movie choice, luggage, drinks policy complimentary or paid
How often do you intend to fly from Manston to New York? Because that is what will make the airport sink or swim.
ReplyDeleteI fly that route 3 or 4 times a year, from heathrow. And I won't be changing my routine because a 2 hour car journey and an hour at heathrow is better that 5 minutes drive and 5 minutes at Manston with an 8 hour layover at schipol on the way back.
You made much more sense and I agreed with you much more when you said nothing for the past three months!
Delusional from London, the stopover on the return flight is 2:45 not 8 hours, whether you could hone this by delving deeper I'm not sure. Check the picture before your bias goes any further.
DeleteAnd as a suggestion why not move back to London, where you would be in your element, you could bitch about the environment and take part in the hypocrisy of flying and moaning about the consequences.
Enjoy
Pretty sure he was referring to his own travelling itinerary from NY. Best check the context before your bias goes any further.
DeleteEnjoy.
Hi tony, a business trip for me would usually consist of a Monday meaning leaving Sunday, coming back Friday arriving in the uk Saturday. The choice with KLM has an 8 or 10 hour stop over on the way back. Rather than fly an hour to a hub airport , I'd rather drive. It makes the journey quicker, and arguably its no more expensive. Not that cost is really an issue, as my company pays for the travel, so my aim is to make thing sharpen as quickly as possible.
DeleteIf I am going on holiday with my family, do I want to subject my kids to a stopover in Amsterdam, regardless of whether it's 1 or 4 hours or more, or do I drive them to Gatwick when I know the flight will be taking off and can be in control of the time spent in the airport? Cost savings are marginal, but again, time is my biggest driver. Get the family to the sunny destination ASAP. No unnecessary journeys.
If Manston had direct flights to somewhere I wanted to go, I would fly there. It's quite possible I would use it for business in Amsterdam. But I am one person. It needs tens of thousands for this one provider to be a success. For the perceived benefits that you seem to have fallen for, I think when you put that in front of someone who regularly flys, they see straight thought it.
DFL lets hope your better at business than booking a flight in example sunday in april Depart Manston Sunday 10:40 KLM 1520 Amsterdam KLM 641 Arrive JFK 15:30 total travel time 9h50m
DeleteReturn Friday Depart 18:00 JFK, KLM 18:00 Amsterdam 07:25 sat KLM1519 arrive Manston 10:05 Total travel time 11h 5m
Try using expedia,
And the time in cleaning up the polluted aquifer under Manston? 1 year? 5 years? 10 years? Infratil - and TDC etc - have had 6 years and done nothing.
DeleteNot the aquifer man again. Oh do please spare us.
DeleteHi tony, straight into attack - perhaps a sign of insecurity. You assume I can catch a 6pm flight on th way back - which is usually can't. Where I fy with ba, there are a couple of flights every hour, not the two in total KLM has. I'm sure other airlines are available, but that turns my very flexible travel arrangements into rigid ones.
DeleteYou are still missing the point. Catch a flight at the same time from JFK to heathrow and your air travel time is at least 4 hours less, you've sat or laid in th same bed not having to change planes, and you will arrive phone in Kent earlier, with more airlines to chose from and flight times to pick from.
Some people I am sure will find it useful - if you live in east Kent and you want to go to Amsterdam - but for families flying to med, business travellers going anywhere else, there is a major transport hub 2 hours up the road which beats it on every count.
When are you booking for first flight from Manston using KLM?
Dream on about Manston. Many other regional airports are owned by local councils including Manchester owned by a collection of local councils. So why you ask dont KCC and TDC get together and purchase Manston at its now low low price. They already own land and busineess parks there and have invested millions on new roads. Its affordable and KCC have a record of running many successful businesses without resorting to unfair practices - or so they tell us.
ReplyDeleteYou may say that KCC is not fit and proper to run Manston having just had to close their bus company Top Travel but why should you care if you get a viable airport. With KCC elections looming I am sure you will hear from local candidates for the first time in 4 years and you could get the purchase of Manston put on their list of promises.
"..but why should you care if you get a viable airport?" I care a great deal because it ISN'T a viable airport. It has lost money every year since it was privatised and not just pennies and halfpennies. We are talking about millions every year. I was happy to see Wiggins losing their money and I'm happy to let Infratil lose their money. I wouldn't be happy to see KCC or TDC buying the airport and losing millions of pounds of taxpayer's money. People who think the airport is a great idea should back it using their own money. The sad fact is that most Councils end up buying airports as vanity projects and this would be no different.
DeleteKCC and TDC have already invested in Masnton for EUJet, Infratil etc. And every penny lost.
DeleteAnd the unclaimed fines for overflights etc.
The councils have been deliverately endangering the public with public funds.
When did our councillors know and who approved it?
Not one public statement from 56 councillors, 8 KCC councillors and 2 MP's in Thanet and the pollution from Manston. When did they know and what did they do?
DeleteWhat pollution? Where is your proof?
DeleteAre you saying there is no pollution at Manston Anon10:30? What proof do you have for that strange view with 747's flying overhead?
DeleteNo, I am not saying anything, but it is you that is going on about pollution. All I asked is where is your proof. Convince me and I might join you, but I will not campaign on allegations alone.
DeleteNow you're not saying anything? You were questioning pollution at Manston. Why would you think there was no pollution? It's well-documented by TDC etc.
DeleteSo refreshing that you extend your insulting, base neo-journalism to the residents of Herne Bay now. Do us all a favour and go back into blogging retirement. You add nothing, bar heightened levels of blood pressure.
ReplyDeleteCheers you have made my day, your just the sort of reader I love.
DeleteWell at least you raise blood pressure which proves you are being noticed, Tony. Let not the rabble drive you back into the reclusive world of Eastcliff Richard. To recall the immortal words of Lt. Bromhedge at Rourke's Drift "We need you, damn it, we need you."
DeleteLong may you contune blogging and annoying all and sundery, me included sometimes. It augers well for freedom of speech.
Am enjoying reading this in Taiwan, a country I visit annually, from Ramsgate. Also visit NZ. And other parts of Asia. Well, so pleased to hear about KLM, and despite being reasonably close to the flight path, wish Manston every success. However...! Trust me I do a lot of searching for our flights, KLM just doesn't offer anywhere near he best price. Indeed their own flights from Heathrow via Amsterdam to Asia are cheaper than from Manston. And when you figure in other airlines (eg Emirates from Gatwick), and the long connecting times at Amsterdam, it just ain't worth it, even allowing for train costs. Anyway early days, lets hope KLM review their pricing strategy.
ReplyDeleteThank you for sharing your Taiwan trip with us, though its relevance to your comment, apart from name dropping, escapes me.
DeleteLove also the attempt to promote yourself as a supporter of Manston promptly damned by your findings on flight costs. No doubt you will be telling us next you are a Tory but will never vote for the party again.
All makes for a good laugh.
As someone who flys long haul once a year, I'd love nothing better than to jump on a plane at Manston. You should not confuse my wishes for success of Manston as an airport with the success of KLM as an operator. Hopefully other operators can be drawn to Manston. Hopefully KLM will adjust their prices.
DeleteI am glad I made you laugh, you seem the sort that needs cheering up.
Touché, mon ami, indeed you are right that cause to laugh should not be lightly dismissed. It is just that there are so many people in Thanet who oppose everything and are seemingly steeped in misery and anger, that I have lost the ability to recognise reasoned argument.
DeleteYes, I too would love to see other operators coming into Manston and have choices rather than facing the dreaded M25, but please don't tell the aquifer man. Don't want him kicking off this early in the day.
Enjoy Taiwan although Penang was always my oriental favourite.
How lovely to see you out of the woodwork again "Tom Clarke". There is a big difference between raising blood pressure by informed and sensible challenge and raising it by boorish insults. But then, given your track record of misrepresentation and untruths on other blogs and turning all your faces away from hard evidence, I wouldn't expect you to be able to discern the difference. And before you challenge me to demonstrate your "history", I have done so several times before, but you have spun yourself out of accepting it.
ReplyDeleteAnon 17:53, I welcome any blog and, let's face it, the blogger by his comments sets himself up to be shot down. Tony posted an item which you seem to find boorish, but that is not reason for him to close down again. Dispute his opinion by your debating skill rather than by simply attacking other commentators.
ReplyDelete17:53 was attacking you Tom not Tony as boorish, insulting and stupid. And misrepresentation and untruths on Manston. it's hard to disagree, and you seem to be revelling in your foolishness now.
DeleteYep, loving every minute of it so you have a nice day 21:01 and any other Anonymous troll who agrees with you.
DeleteI wonder why "troll" is such a beloved term of abuse among those on the political right locally. It gets trotted out by people like Moores and "Tom Clarke" as a response to anyone who presents a point of view that either they don't like or which they are inacapable of challenging. Perhaps it's a consequence of their frustration over their personal inadequacies? Whatever, it really is sad that they have to insult and abuse those with whom they disagree, but hey, that's the Thanet Tory Party for you.
ReplyDeleteIncapable of challenging, maybe you should try 'stand up' as a career as you have obvious talent for it.
DeleteHi Tony, have you booked your holiday flights from Manston using KLM yet? I would guess you won't be going anywhere in Europe this year juadging by one of your latest blog postings, So will you be using the convenient 11hr trip to NYC you are advertising?
ReplyDeleteManston Airport TDC committee meeting cancelled tomorrow. Economic strategy for Manston provided 2 days before the meeting after 6 months. And 4 pages of nothing. Says it all really. Are Buchanan and Pedro cleaning up the pollution if they've nothing to do? 2 cargo flights a week can't keep them busy.
ReplyDelete