Wednesday, May 29, 2013

Thanet Council Extraordinary Cabinet Meeting 29/5/13

With great power comes great responsibility" a line I recall from the Spider-Man film circa 2002, whether Thanet council wields great power or any sense of responsibility is something we might find out tonight.

A couple of contentions items are on the agenda tonight, one the never ending saga of the royal sands development, of which Michael child is expert and best placed to discuss

Next a more recent foul up, (please note other four letter words are available) the Transeuropa debacle, so far from my cursory view of the evidence we've had a couple of its not me Guv type communications from Tory and Labour, with no likelihood of any one putting their hands up.

I write this as I travel home from another hard day at the office (building railways) wondering if it's worth traipsing over to the council offices, for what it's worth I feel it's most likely to be a bit of a disappointment.

Will council officers be suspended/resign pending an enquiry, will Clive Hart admit that his lot are incapable monitoring the council finances, or Bob Bayford admit to reckless deals?

Please excuse the usual grammar spelling title cockups I'm posting this on the trip home.

UPDATE After the meeting

Neither Clive Hart or Bob Bayford or indeed the TDC Chief Exec or any officers resigned

Also this is my understanding hampered by an abysmal sound system  £3,300,000. owed by Transeuropa is apparently just an illusion, to make it simple, they just failed to pay for services at Ramsgate Harbour Simples!

Just imagine you rented an asset like a house or this case a harbour and your customer failed to pay accumulating a debt of three million with no security, of course you'd just laugh it off.

Clive Hart and in this instance  his alliance partner Bob Bayford, failed i'd say to convince most of the public of their joint defence.

The only members of the council with any comprehension of basic business principals  seemed to be those independent members. Big Thank you to Tom King for articulation of the problem and Ian Driver for conveying the incredulity of the general public.


  1. Well said Tone: utter incompetence and fraud at TDC. And so many years and opportunities wasted by these old fools.

    The next scandal will be the Manston monitors and fines.

  2. At least Clr Hart didnt blame the government tonight, now he is in a coalition with Cllr Bob Tory

  3. What do you expect form incompetent idiots?

  4. Cllr Ken Gregory is the only decent person on the council

    1. Hey let's not forget mike Harrison, whom rather neatly sidestepped any punishment for his comments Oh sorry he's labour therefore incapable of taking any responsibility

    2. Cllr Harrison, who didn't wish someone dead, actually apologised for his comments, unlike Cllr Gregory who stands by his evil words; words that have offended and continue to offend decent people of all political colours.

    3. I'm a decent person and I am not offended. Do we have to forever go on about something said in the heat of the moment or have none of the rest of us ever said anything we later regret. Perhaps it is time for our councillors to get on with the job of looking after our interests instead of pandering to the tantrums of a one trick pony.

  5. What will be there excuse when they have to pay damages to the other ferry company that used to operate from Ramsgate before it's business was destroyed by the illegal ban of a legal business? A small customer paying it's bills has been chased out of Ramsgate cause their legal business did not please the personal opinion of councilors in charge of .... I don't know what to call it.
    In Thanet:
    - council members get convicted
    - councilor member wish collegues HIV
    - council members ban legal trade
    - council members close secret deals with insolvent parties
    - council member responsable for TDC finance, walks out of meetings throwing paperwork around
    - council members take no responsability of their actions
    - those living there will be pay the bill.

    For how long?

    1. Ken Gregory wished Aids on someone not HIV and Rick Evrett is the finance executive not John Warrow but you knew that didn't you Simon

    2. 0935 is not Simon, but 1444 is definitely John.

  6. It's clear Bayford and Hart and their parties are both incompetent. Simply Tweedledum and Tweedledummer trying to cover over the problems.

    They're simply not opposition to when they swap with each other to continue running TDC the same way: secrecy, mismanagement and corruption.

    We need change.

    1. Certainly you do, Anon 11:28, a change of record would not go amiss in your case.

    2. A few criminal records are what's needed 16:37 for our councillors and civil servants that have defrauded us repeatedly. Or are you saying there is no corruption or mismanagement? There's certainly plenty of secrecy which is illegal in itself for a council.

    3. Anon 20:04, I am not saying anything other than I am bored to death with your perpetual demands for arrests and allegations of corruption invariably made without a grain of substance to back them up.

      If you feel so strongly get off your fat and do something about it.

    4. So you're saying there is corruption and mismanagement at TDC - but you can't be bothered to do anything about it.

      What a pointless anon you are.

      Clearly the Police are investigating TDC hence Ezekiel's arrest and jail. A few more councillors and civil servants should follow him shouldn't they?

    5. It is you that do not get it, Anon 11:42, for you endlessly go on around the Thanet blogs about arrests and corruption without seeming to realise that you are in an exchange with no more than a dozen people. How much impact do you think that has.

      For my part, on the issues that concern me, I write to the Gazette, my MP and ward councillor. If I am unyhappy with their reply they get another letter until I am sure they have got the message.

      As to whether more councillors will follow Ezekiel will depend on evidence so, if you really have any to back up your constant allegations, I suggest you pass it to the police rather than just twittering on here.

    6. You haven't answered the point about corruption at TDC? You're saying there is none?

      And in terms of the Police investigating, they already are, so your comments are completely pointless except trying to defend the indefensible for some strange reason of your own.

      Given the Police investigation more councillors and civil servants should be jailed over Manston, Thor etc shouldn't they?

    7. Anon, I do not know if there is corruption or not so I am not saying anything. If, as you say, there is a police investigation underway then, providing there is evidence, arrests should follow. All I was saying was that if you, as you claim, know so much why not give your evidence to the police. I suspect, however, that the answer is that you are all mouth and trousers with not a grain of anything to support your allegations.

    8. So you really are saying nothing. What a pointless series of statements to make and then rather pointless insults too.

      Be assured, if you have no opinion of your own, there is plenty of corruption at TDC and the Police are investigating. Ezekiel is but the first.

    9. Until someone is actually arrested, charged and convicted out of this police investigation, it remains pure speculation based on little more than rumour. Thus it is your unfounded allegations that are pointless rather than those of us around the blogs who keep asking you for evidence. Your failure to respond to such requests confirms that you have none.

    10. Eh? Ezekiel has been charged - and jailed. The Police investigation continues and is reported on the front page of the Gazette.

      What evidence would you like on say 0% salaries or Manston monitoring or ChinaGate bungs?

      And, surely you'd agree that more councillors and civil servants should be arrested and jailed over Manston, TEF, and ChinaGate? Or do you still maintain there is no corruption at TDC and it's rather excellent as your council?

    11. Anon 09:32, TDC is certainly not excellent but incompetence does not in itself constitute a criminal offence. The extensive investigation into Ezekiel only revealed misconduct in a public office over failure to declare an interest. No loss to thye public purse there.

      The ongoing investigation as yet has revealed no further offences and the failure to collect fines at Manston and the lifting of berthing fees for TEF to keep them going and protect port jobs are within the remit of the council. Not criminal. Similarly the donation of £25K made to Thanet Labour over Chinagate was declared and is in their books. Not criminal.

      However, since you seem convinced of the criminality of all these events why don't you break cover and send CI Fordham at Thanet Police HQ, Fort Hill, Margate a dossier of all these acts with your evidence. If you cannot, or are unwilling, to do that perhaps it is time you buttoned your lip and stop accusing people of things you cannot substantiated.

    12. Tag Team Mallinson pops up to try and defend the indefensible at TDC. I wonder why? Even the Government itself considers TDC useless. Incompetence you say? Certainly. And cause in itself for P45's etc.

      But no corruption? Pleasurama fires and tax haven companies. perfectly normal. Secret meetings for ferry debts for years. perfectly normal. The ChinaGate largest ever donation for the largest ever construction project. perfectly normal. The resignations of all four of the senior councillors and civil servants. Perfectly normal. the cancellation of EKO, ChinaGate and Pleasurama all key elements of TDC's plans. And the 4th town centre massive housebuilding programme. Perfectly normal.

      But the 0% salaries now that is odd isn't it Allan?

      And what about the Manston monitors and fines?

    13. I have told you what to do with your suspicions, but you choose to continue your bleating on the blogsites and do nothing yourself to bring your 'evidence' to the notice of the authorities. In other words you are just a shallow charlatan happy to accuse behind your anonymous smokescreen, but without the courage to put substance to your accusations.

      Elsewhere I see you are already kicking off about the Manston airshow which will cause far less pollution in one day than the busy road down the side of the airfield causes on a daily basis. You simply have a thing about aircraft which I suspect is much more about your selfish objection to noise than pollution.

    14. The only odd thing around here, 15:29, is you so if you want to win people over to your cause time to start coming up with some facts rather than just repeating the same old allegations.

    15. I asked you specifically about the 0% salaries Allan. You blithely dismiss all aspects of corruption at TDC. But speak up on the 0% let's hear your explanation for that.

      The Manston monitors and fines too if you wish.

    16. They are your topics, Anon, not mine so you speak up if you wish. I know nothing about 0% salaries, which you have never explained properly, and I covered the point about monitors and non collection of fines not being illegal earlier.

      How about you trying to win people over to your cause with facts rather than dismissive insults. On second thoughts, just carry on because you are doing wonders turning everyone off your sundry causes.

    17. You haven't explained the other points as to why you blithely think there's no corruption at TDC Allan.

      The 0% are detailed elsewhere; briefly no payrises claimed by Samuel etc but 15% or more secretly provided which is fraud isn't it?

      You haven't explained the missing monitors or millions of pounds of fines at all.

      Your support for TDC and RAF Manston is looking like you're clutching at straws.

    18. Anon, your inaccuracies are never ending. RAF Manston closed over a decade ago and all that remains belonging to MOD is the Fire School, hence I find it difficult to support something that no longer exists.

      I stated that the council can choose not to enforce fines if they so decide and that is not criminal. Also that the static monitors were removed and replaced with mobile ones.

      Since the salaries of local government officers are subject of public record there can be no fraud relating to them. If what you are saying that the council announced a freeze on rises, but gave some as much as 15% that remains within their remit though I would like to see your evidence of this.

      Nonetheless, I repeat that these are your concerns, not mine and, if you want people to take notice and rally to your cause, you need to back up your claims with a lot more verifiable fact, stopped dismissing out of hands those that challenge you and start answering a few questions yourself.

    19. A desperate reworking of the truth Mallinson but let's go through them.

      A dull quibble over RAF Manston: all your posts are around supporting the airport - ignoring when it was viable as an RAF-subsidised base. I agree the MOD Fire School is a similar waste of subsidy and heavily polluting given the water supply.

      The council can choose not to enforce fines - unfortunately they haven't. The fines should be collected as specified. Unless yo're in favour of the secretive and random decisions that led to FerryGate. And failing to collect millions of pounds at Manston to offset the pollution cost.

      Your 0% points are nonsensical seeming to declare that the public record of 0% salaries is somehow acceptable even if it is 15% increases. You can Google or FOI the info as it is public record. I won't waste my time on you.

      Your points on the monitors are very naughty: the main monitors at a school - and used by the excellent Manchester University aviation team - were removed along with several other monitors by TDC and Infratil. Not only reducing the total but the quality of monitoring. Obviously this would reduce the pollution recording and fines (see above).

      And concerning given the stated plans and public subsidy to increase to the size of Stansted.

      You make no mention of the 4x EU safety levels even with few jets.

      Along with your claims of no corruption at TDC your increasingly random opinions are sounding simply idiotic.