Thursday, October 07, 2010

Outrage as Hutton suggests Public Sector pay more for their Pensions

The independent commission on public sector pensions, has arrived at the astonishing conclusion, that members of such pension schemes ought to pay higher contributions, and who knows where this might end, perhaps one day public sector employees, will have to fund all their pension, like pretty much most of society .

Anyway for more details please click this link from the BBC and watch the video and listen to an astonished reporter as he asks, Lord Hutton does this mean doctors nurses and teachers might have to pay more, towards their pensions, its clear to me, the ingrained attitude of the public sector, extends well into BBC reporting, it sounds like the reporter is shocked and has difficulty in accepting the concept of paying your way in life.

It's difficult not to assume that BBC is in the business of crude propaganda, on behalf of public sector workers and their unions, looking at their website the subject is currently illustrated with a photograph of firemen putting out a fire emotivephoto but then of course the image of say a clerical worker in local government or even a teacher etc would be less emotive .

I can certainly empathise with that anyone in the public sector who has been expecting a generous pension, at the end of their working days however I'm not quite sure why I had to fund it .

Currently one in every 5 pounds paid by myself and other taxpayers to fund local government, goes just on pensions, why has this ever been allowed to occur. No doubt of the next few hours a precession of plucky public sector workers will be dragged on to our screens to convince us that it somehow justified.

I'm currently paying something like £250 a year, just so council workers can retire on a good pension, I wouldn't mind so much if the council occasionally sent someone to cut the grass or even sent a thank you note, but no such luck, thanks for nothing.

PS you might think I'm suggesting a BBC bias, but no, looking at this graphic from the lunchtime news I'd say shameless propaganda since it shows "front line" staff more appealing than all those superfluous managers and administrators who make up a large chunk of the public payroll.shamelesspropaganda 


  1. No doubt the screaming will reach fever pitch and the public sector unions will go ape but needs must. Those of us in private pension funds got little sympathy a decade ago when Gordon Brown launched his multi-billion pound raid on our retirement prospects. Oh, and nobody went on strike then either!

    Unless this issue is addressed there will simply not be enough money in the pot to pay public sector pensions anyway so better to start putting the house in order.

    No doubt those on the left will suggest that taxing the rich, property sales taxes, inheritance tax, ending offshore tax havens and scratching your rear tax will produce hobbles of money. They are simply unable to grasp the fact that, if you shared the wealth of the rich minority around the rest of us, it would amount to very little each. Furthermore, it would drive away all the entrepeneurs and foreign investors resulting in no jobs.

    I find it incredible how some, despite the total failure of the communist way in practice, still cling to this idea that we can perpetually rob the rich to pay the poor. Just as impractical as the idea that terms and conditions are enshrined and have to be met even when the cupboard is bare.

  2. As a recipient of a Fire Service pension, perhaps I should declare an interest! I signed up to a 'deal' in 1971 and that, to me means a contract with the Fire Service pension scheme.In 1998 i was given the option of leaving, and joining a 'Private pension scheme' I declined. so at no time did I 'take advantage of the system, I just took a judgement. Now, people like me are being castigated. Sorry, I was offered the deal, I payed 11 3/4 percent of my wages into the scheme, now some sad old gits say it was wrong? sorry its called a deal!

  3. It would be so good if you were able to post, Tony, without allowing the huge chip on your shoulder to influence the language you use. Your constant sarcastic or plain offensive jibes at public sector workers are becoming incredibly tiresome.

    I realise that they are popular "whipping-boys" for the administration of which your Party plays such a meagre part - allowing the Tories to introduce their own ideologically-driven policies while your leaders stand and blush, with their backs to their OWN policies - but at least reflect on the facts occasionally.

    In many years of pay negotiations, when unarguably public sector pay lagged way behind comparable jobs in the private sector, workers were told - by Governments of all colours - that the settlements took account of job security and the value of future pension provision. I know. I was there.

    You cannot now say to those same people "sorry, now we want your pensions as well".

    I know nothing about what you do as a track maintenance worker, so I do not comment on your value or your cost. Bear in mind that I pay for you, too, through a) my rail fares and b) my taxes (bearing in mind the railways still rceeive a subsidy). You clearly know little about what most public sector workers do, so please stop mouthing off from your position of relative ignorance.

  4. 1 46 how are you being castigated, I'm paying along with the rest of society and yes your right to have taken the decision you did, but please tell me why I'm paying £250 each year for other peoples pension.

    Do explain why questioning fat pensions makes me a sad old git, I at least have some sympathy for those in the public sector but your comment doesn't explain the justice of people like me subsidising your pension.

  5. anon 203 another incapable of explaining why I and other taxpayre have to surrender our wages to fund their pensions

  6. Damn right! Why are we subbing them.

  7. Still some seem incapable of taking on board the fact that there is no money left. It doesn't really matter what deal was entered into, you cannot take out what isn't there.

    By the way, in case some folk had not noticed, it is a former Labour minister who is saying all this, not the dreaded Tories!

  8. I wonder if these pensions will have to show up on here ......

    Call for councils to open books
    Published 1 October 2010

    Communities Secretary Eric Pickles has called for all councils to publish their spending over £500 online, reminding them that their January deadline is drawing closer.
    Deadline approaching

    So far less than seventy councils have been brave enough to face public scrutiny and with just 64 working days until the start of the New Year the clock is ticking for councils to open their files so the public can see where their money is being spent.

    Mr Pickles added:

    "I've called for a new era of transparency where all councils publish their spending over £500 online. I commend those councils that have been brave enough to face public scrutiny so far. There are now only sixty or so working days for those lagging behind to catch up.

    "The public have a right to see how their council tax is being spent so they know they are getting value for money and the best possible frontline services.

    "I want to see an army of 'Armchair Auditors' pore over the information and hold their council to account if things are not done right. That means the data also has to be easily accessible: today advice has been published that will help councils yet to comply. There are hundreds of computer whizzes who'll find creative new ways to make that raw data relevant to local life."

  9. The question needs to be asked, why does any area the size of east kent need 5 chief executives 15 directors at district council level all on over £100,000.
    We cant afford it, their pay should be reduced by 25% at least.
    if they won't accept it i am sure there are other able people who will.

  10. The average public sector pension currently taken by a retiring person is approx £7000. The most common level of pension in the public sector is between £4000 and £5000.

    The wages in the public sector were always lower than similar jobs in the private sector, that decreased salary was offset by a better pension.

    The problem lies in successive Governments employing more and more public servants.

    By the time I retire, if I stay in the public sector that long, I'll have worked almost 40 years in the public sector, I wonder what my pension will be worth considering I max out my contributions?

    Not a lot......

  11. Anon 12 38 "wages in the public sector were always lower than similar jobs in the private sector" I take it that would have been around time when Dixon of Dock Green was a young police constable.

    Public sector have been well paid for the last thirty years

  12. You are becoming as good a manipulator of information and the truth, Tony, as the lying and two-timing politicians who lead your Lib Dem Party. You also clearly prefer tabloid headlines to fact. Public sector pay has lagged behind the private sector. Things may have changed over the past three or four years, because of the recession, but over time that has not been the case. Public sector employers have factored job security and future pensions into pay deals that have been held below those agreed in the private sector.

    Your view - conveniently sidestepping this point - is that public sector workers are "well paid". Many are, many are not. That is the same as the private sector.

    I pay your wages too. No-one is paid by some mythical private sector benefactor. The wages paid to private sector staff come from income earned from customers and charges levied on customers. Customers - often with no real choice in the matter - are in the same position as taxpayers.

    So let's start looking at your worth, shall we. How many bits of track do you lay in an hour? How productive are you? Are you one of the workers often seen asleep when work should be being done? How much do you get paid? What little tricks do you and yours get up to? What bonuses? And what pension?

    Intrusive questions, but only on a par with the shoulder-chip driven nastiness you are promoting here. Perhaps you should stand for the Council. The staff will LOVE you.

  13. 6 01 anon I hate having to reply to those who refuse to use an name so I shall call you Clive.

    First point Clive, I'm sure your Labour colleagues could teach you a thing or two about lying and of course Ed Miliband would be helpful on sidestepping his past and the bent unions on fixing elections.

    Second Clive, Public sector pay has been as good if not better that the public sectof for many a year, not since Labour created the recession while MP's and Labour cabinet ministers stole and fiddled expenses

    Third Clive, if your paying my wages, could you pay me a bit more then please, I dont want to be greedy so maybe you could get me similar terms to your pals in the public sector, job security that extends beyond the end of my next shift, holiday pay. This week I've had one days work last week four, and four the week before.

    And Clive if you really want to know what I get paid, do contact me, using your real name and I'll be happy to discuss it, on a confidential basis, so that you don't have to talk out of your sphincter.

    Finally Clive as intrusive as you are please be assured that I'm sure I do a damn sight more than the desk jockeys you're so exercised about.

    Be assured that I care more about those at the bottom of the heap than you and all those smug B*st*rds in the Labour party that like you have forgotten about your party's heritage and past

  14. 6 01 "clive" Oh and sorry I forgot to mention nobody has told be why I should pay hundreds of pounds to fund someone elses pension?

  15. May be because some public sector workers put their lives on the line to protect YOU Police, Fire ,a
    Ambulance, Armed Forces, etc!!!

  16. There are plenty of people who put their lives on the line for this country and to defend others who get no pension for it. WWII veterans, National Servicemen, armed services regulars who, prior to August 1975, served less than 22 years, all get no pension for that service. Were their lives somehow worth less than today's public servants?

    Worse still, when a Labour government introduced deferred pension rights for servicemen in 1975 they did not make it retrospective and even encouraged others to leave early on cash hand shakes so they would not qualify for a pension under under the new rules.

  17. Wonder how much will be paid out in pensions to this little lot....shhhhhhhh these are never spoken about in county hall the councillors just pretend they dont exist.

    Common Purpose graduates associated with Kent County Council

  18. £25 k a year as a tdc help desk officer, security and cleaning contracted out as tdc cannot afford to pay council rates for the job- seems fairly well paid to me.

  19. CP Doublespeak: Change means Chaos


    1. False pretences - pretend to be an educational charity when your objectives are really political.

    2. Corrupt public servants - they then do what their friends in the Common Purpose network tell them instead of working for the public good. Make them happy to breach the Seven Principles of Public Life as set out by the Committee on Standards in Public Life and act ultra vires - beyond their powers.

    3. Abuse public funds - get your hands on as much public money as possible and then use it for your own ends.

    4. Fraud - obtain money for training unlawfully by pretending the courses are of benefit to the taxpayer.

    5. Abuse due process - take council decisions outside democratic process.

    6. Evade tax - Common Purpose uses public sector facilities and office space for which it has made no payment nor signed any formal agreements in order to evade tax.

    7. Breach data protection laws and ensure that Common Purpose members in the Information Commissioner's Office prevent action from being taken.

    8. Undermine the hierarchical management structure of the police and armed forces.

    9. Silence the media - recruit media editors as Common Purpose members so the corrupt activities of Common Purpose will not be discussed in the mainstream media.

    10. Keep schtum - hold meetings according to the Chatham House rules with no agenda or records.

  20. 2:32 PM

    Well that thoroughly boring epic certainly stifled further debate on the subject though precisely what it had to do with pensions beats me.

    Do you ever read what you have written and wonder if it brings pleasure to anyone else or even contributes to the debate. Doubt it and what a dull existence you must lead.

  21. 3:46:00 PM

    Are you a common purpose graduate by any chance and how big is your pension , do councillor's receive a pension from the council?

  22. 5:44 PM

    Sorry to disappoint, old fruit, but no, I am not a councillor and get just the state pension plus a small private one I funded myself over many years, the latter substantially lower thanks to Gordon Brown's pension fund raid.

    No offence intended but still think you write a load of boring drivel.

  23. Occasionally, you do try to be witty, Tony, I'll give you that, but mostly your posts are ignorant and borderline offensive. You may dub me whatever you like, but to educate you, my name is not Clive, I am not a member of the Labour Party, and have no connection with those who clearly intrigue you so much.

    I see that, as ever, you are back to your fall-back issue of anonymous posting. As I have said before, if you don't want anonymous posts, or you only want them if they suck up to your point of view, then ban them.

    My point - clearly lost on you - is that the public pays for you (wages and pension) as much as the public sector staff whom you hate so much. I don't care how much you earn and so on, but you should reflect on that before you post further hostile comments about other groups in society.

  24. not clive 8:20 sunday 10

    You seem to make more assumptions than I, just for the record, google identified your comment as spam, probably by due to the predictable pro labour hog wash hence a delay in appearing.

    I think your a purveyor of porkies, and an accomplished propagandist.

    I see a bit of shroud waving, from the public sector and yes if I did a sedentary job I would feel intimidated however I work in a potentially dangerous environment, not least being often in proximity of a 750 volt conductor rail( which I'm told will microwave you inside out) still its my choice to work in the rail industry.

    I have a lot of respect for those who do tough jobs in the public sector, although this has developed into a boring argument, and none of your fellow Labour supporters has explained why I should subsidise the pension of people who are paid more than me, more secure etc.

    Anon comments are welcome but cowardly abuse such as yours is of course always irritating and if you don't like it you can always .....

  25. Hello Uncle :)
    I think you could be confused? we in the NHS pay a pension. it's not free and many of my friends got suckered in the 90's into private pensions, so opted out, as they seemed cheaper, the pension is index linked and we pay a sightly less NI contribution's, but we do pay into our pensions, I have 19 years of paying which as a 40 year old, I am way ahead of most British people, including my husband who only started under my nagging at 34 in his private pension, in the private sector, I also have a private pension, which has been going about 10 years. the NHS pension is good but the only "perk" you get as a Nurse, in the US I could earn double what I could get in the UK, and in private health in the UK a 1/3 more, in normal nursing, in my specialism Occupational Health I was being sold outside at 68 pounds an hour unqualified in OH, and I could do that as an individual,when I get my qualification, ( and when I get qualified we are talking private for me hundreds of pounds) but I don't and won't because I love the NHS and also selfishly I want a good pension, my wages aren't great, but I will have a standard of living in the future I hope?

  26. Dear Tony

    I know a lot of what you publish is toungue in cheek, but you do seem sadly uninformed over public sector pensions.
    I have had both public and private sector jobs. In each case I, like any sensible person looks at the overall employment package, that is salary, promotion prosepects, perks such as private health insurance, holday entitlement and defered salary in the form of pension provision. To try to isolate one aspect is misleading and unfair.
    In my case, at one time the overall package was in favour of the private sector job offer, at another time the public sector package won out, even though the salary was lower and there were fewer perks.
    The tax payer pays for all public sector workers salary packages one way or another. That is the nature of things. In my experience salaries are tighter controled in the public sector and there are fewer perks.

  27. Dear David your view is your own I do not share it, naturally you would side with the idea of me forking out large amounts from a precarious job, however there is no justification for the mismatch in incomes and benefits between safe public sector workers for ordinary working people like me.

    Obviously you since your own party is investing its future in throwing any amount of dirt justified or otherwise its no surprise you say what you say.

    Heather you say you could earn more in the US however you fail to mention the insanely generous holiday pay arrangements which you commented on having returned from maternity leave, only to find you had a mountain of holiday leave to take much acquired on in the months off from work.

    Heather do email me, are you coming back to civilisation? also you known how I dont like being rude to family, so I've held back !

  28. I know the answer. Correctly identify the public sector as parasites who have played a massive part in dragging UK to its knees and, instead of a pension, give them their contributions back.

    For many decades the UK has over rewarded the low risk personality attracted to public sector bureaucracy work.

    Now we see the all work test being applied to 2.5 million people on incapacity benefits. Guess what ? This test will show that many were always capable of writing, reading and using a keyboard. They could have had the public sector jobs but these jobs were largely taken by able bodied lazy parasites unwilling to test themselves in further education or in private sector competitive employ or entrepreneurship.

    I agree with Bluenote. The public sector will squeal when at long last the first nip of reality comes calling.

  29. Wow! Who'd have thought that capitalist conservatives where 2 a penny in deprived Thanet!

    So I'm a parasitic public servant am I? Are soldiers, police, firemen, nurses, doctors and teachers parasites as well who have been too lazy to test themselves? or are you just an idiot 5:10pm?

    No point commenting further, I see you are too busy reading your copy of the Daily Mail or sitting like a rabid pitbull in front of Sky News.

  30. Dear Uncle, sorry I am e-mailing you too, missing you a lot, yes I had an insane amount of leave to take, but that was because I went on mat leave just when the rules changed and I was given 7 days almost 2 weeks, back, as I had over 10 years continuous service in the NHS, last time you discussed pay you where earning more than me, also the maternity thing was both private and public, as a statutory right, I choose to help my employer by going back on the agreed date, and take my holiday as part of my maternity time, I was hit both by my pension contributions and tax with this decision, but I did it as unlike private sector employees we in the public sector, not all I will be honest, but we believe in the care of all and will go the extra mile for no other reason than, people trust us and deserve it, it is hard for people outside to understand that, but if you could see me in 2003 hiding under a table to avoid the phone calls, and them on the premises of solicitors who wanted illegally to take client details you would know, the time a patients son held me by the trough in 1993, he apologised a few days later, the time I was trapped in the rest room, when the police, where trying to get a teenage murderer in the hospital, 2000, the time we had to keep the wear about's of the 2 survivors of the Chinese in the container, secret to the point another area in the hospital was maned as an ITU, not easy, and not easy with the press outside, they even gave out the story they had been moved, when they hadn't.
    I witnessed a elderly man being told his wife, (he was in his late 70's) being told that his wife who had been caught up in a fire on the sofa, would most probably survive said "are you sure?, because I tried to kill her"
    I have held people in X ray who have been killed for the police records, you have to be there as murder victims get rigor mortise sooner, so are not the most compliant patients.
    the other down side is you do see friends and family under your care the nurse who phoned me from London about my Dad was someone I trained with oddly, not a friend, but I knew her it is a small word, Mums physio for her back was a friend in Stafford.
    Nursing and allied profession's are not a job for life as i pointed out about Steph and her entire ward made redundant in 2000, they got saved at the last knockings but they never got their redundancy Payment, which they should have been as they had notice, they never thought that, all she could think about was her patients.

  31. hi Tony, yes I did have an insane amount of holiday to take but our contracts change when I was off sick with the twins pregnancy, so I got 7 day added on to my real leave, which is almost 2 weeks in real money.
    but I when I found out. took it in My mat leave, which was the same for both private and public sector at the time, so I shortened my mat leave, this cost me more in tax and NI, then I had to pay my pension contributions from my first months pay or not pay as it out, as I owed my pension, I then went on to pay.
    when I actually returned to work all but about 300 pounds for the nursery, in fact it was 294 pounds a month I cleared after nursery, I think 50 pound on petrol to get to work, so as a nurse I was earning in real terms about 250 pound's a month, I was a junior sister grade, so what do you want? experienced Nurses or those who have just qualified? they need nurturing most nurses of my age 40 have 1 to 3 children needing care, they all stay in work because they care about people, that is why Nursing wages are low compared to the private sector, and last I heard what you earned you out priced me, you earned far more, PS you seemed to have forgotten Steph was made redundant in 2000 only saved by Macmillian, and if you look up agenda for change, you will see NHS workers are easy to fire.

  32. sorry 2 post as the first said it was rejected, as too long so with my genes i posted again :)

  33. Oh dear, Flaig family differences almost as obvious as those about to hit the Condom Coalition. Think tuition fees, Chippy Tone.

  34. Tony, you are one of the curious crowd who feels free to - and does - abuse others quite regularly, but then whines and bleats when others use tough and direct language towards you. Your constant past complaints about ECR especially have marked you out in that respect.

    You have far more in common, in terms of behaviour (and opinions), with certain local Tory luminaries than you say and believe you have.

    But this is your blog, to indulge yourself in misinformation, mis-shaped policy, moans and breast-beating as you see fit. And if you prefer not to have comments from those who disagree with you, fine; I for one have no problem with that. I shall, though, look forward to you standing for election to the Council - if you choose to do so, of course - when your inability to cope with opposing views, and your jealousy and hatred towards those who would be working for you as an elected member, may well come back to haunt.

    I shall think of you in your dangerous "worthier than thou" job next time my train is delayed and slowly passing a track worker sitting idly eating a pie rather than mending the rail.

  35. 10:23 PM

    As an ex-soldier of many years service I can say categorically that there are far too many civilian public servants in the MOD doing non-jobs. Indeed, at some 86,000 of them there are nearly as many as there are actual soldiers.

    Add their silly equivalent ranks, who dreamed up that a civvy driver was equal to a uniformed sergeant for example, and all their expenses perks and you have chronic waste.

    The argument is not a clear cut one. Cuts are not necessarily an assault on all public sector workers, many of whom are essential, but there are also many who could go and no one would miss them.

    By the way, to the poor little red contributor ever looking for splits in the coalition, just dream on sunshine. There are probably more splits in the Labour shadow cabinet not to mention Cain and Abel.

  36. 4 52 do email me your comment (too long) and I will publish it

    7 24 from your comment I take it you had a repressed upbring, and on tuition fees I have always be against Labours first attack on universal benefits of free education. Re family, mine being Liberal we were bought up to discuss issues

    Excuse me 7 51 "Clive" I have yet to abuse anyone here, with reference to complaints about ECR these have been regarding defamatory comments which he refused to remove despite a polite request. No wonder he is so interested in libel reform.
    I have little in common with any Torys, finally reference to my work was only mentioned in context of Labour shroud waving (suggest you look it up) oh and the reason track workers are sitting idly or more likely standing, is because they have moved from the "four foot" the track on which your train is moving to a position of safety. As for hatred jealousy have a look in the mirror old chap.

  37. Methinks you do protest too much, dear Tony. You fool no-one but yourself. Now calm down and have another moan.

  38. Can we just get the facts straight please Maternity Leave Entitlement is available to ALL WORKING women who meet the criteria, it is not a public sector perk!

    Statutory paid annual leave is a minimum of 20 days - so to keep it simple if any working women took a years maternity leave, 'she' would accrue at least 20 days and assuming she worked a 5 day week be entitled to 4 weeks paid leave on 'her' return.

    And no I don't have any children!

  39. Oh come, come, Anon, Tony has no interest in facts. They get in the way of his bigoted, offensive rants.