Thursday, February 24, 2011

Quick notes from meeting - council meeting 24/2/11




Finance department clapped as reward for their efforts hurrah!

Pfizer mentioned reference to government response and formation of task force p carter
We will see government upgrading of rail and parkway railstation,  Laura sandys mentioned
Labour interruption not happy with reference to government
Clive Hart  wants updates can't see how parkway, will help with travel time to Ramsgate, iris dragged in marks and sparks, Harrison anti parkway  went on about 5 to ten passengers, completely mis understands the concept of Parkway stations also the need for improving connectivity with London
Fifty-eight minutes Chris wells mentioned as travel time from London with an upgrade to line you need vision said Ezekiel (good performance)
Bayford rounded up with the importance of parkway a damn sight more positive than Clive Harts Dinosaur club

Chief exec boring in my opinion (its not him its the material he has to work with)

Move on to Budget

Clive Hart Lab leader mentioned Rushed budget, Bob Bayford tory leader mention Clive  never taken up offer to meet with him and discuss
Electioneering seemed to be claim from Labour bods, 
Might well be true

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE Ancient history bought up by iris Johnson shared services re tourism iris levelled serious allegations of Canterbury tourist wallahs hiding Margate brochures at Canterbury visitor centres 
More ancient history Thanet computer centre Harrison Lab
Burial bulk waste tennis courts Cllr Paul Lab even managed a big yawn about Tennis courts ( something he and his colleagues milked dry last time I went to a council meeting)

Simon Moores had to witter on about his specialist subject him and the interweb ( I have to leave shortly)

Joanna Gideon suggested Iris ought to move on instead of harking back to 95 or there abouts

Simon Moores speaks again goodnight Im outta here

These are rough notes and should not be treated as reliable night night

Someones got to get up b4 dawn


Rather him than me


  1. I work on the railway, upgrading the line will keep jobs going and improve the local economy.


    First social housing now screw the workers

  2. Time to stop paying the public pretenders ?

  3. Well done Tony a good summary Mark was there, Clive seemed uncomfortable still I expect that is because he knows he has to resign, or prove what we all know that his resignation statement was an attempt to put extra pressure on Mark, I seehis deputy has joined the attack on Mark in todays Gazette,, you could not make it up

  4. So Clive didn't resign? I'm not surprised. I've seen the Gazette letters. What a load of bulllies! Thoroughly investigated? What a joke. Mark was excluded from meetings during the 'investigation' and not allowed to present evidence. Oh and surprise surprise, the letter did not mention that others have received complaints.

    They plan to eventually oust Mark and then Clive will give his glory statement about how he has been exonerated. Mark's integrity is his worst enemy in this situation. There are many in the local labour party who still have great respect for Mark but are wary of Clive's bullies.

  5. The council chamber is reminiscent of the play ground, and I applaud Mark for facing up to his resposiblities and representing his constituents as always.

    Without folding to the inevitable pressure, from the leadership .

    The front bench reminded me of some exclusive little group of school boys

    I just hope the Mr Nottingham was able to leave the meeting with Clive Harts group exuding a more mature and adult attitude hopefully with fraternal relations restored

  6. No doubt the reason Councillor Nottingham was not allowed to submit his evidence was because they knew it would hang them! Same reason they won't show any themselves.

    And they call this democracy?!
    Let the public see the evidence and decide for ourselves.

  7. Tony,
    Sadly, they won't back down. They are too entrenched.

    As the song says...'Sorry seems to be the hardest word...'

    They still have time to correct their errors of judgement before the May elections. Its the cover up that's killing them.

  8. The truly scary thing is that with the current lack of popularity of the central government, the May elections could see many local councils, including Thanet, go to Labour control.

    Think of that here for Labour have opposed social housing, opposed the Parkway and jobs it will create, opposed the development of Manston and generally opposed everything on principle. One is left to wonder what exactly they do support.

    Then there is their internal shambles where the leader says his position is untenable and he will resign but he does not. A councillor who seems to be popular amongst his constituents is dumped but no real explanation is offered as to why. The worst of the current Labour group cling round the leader whilst the father figures keep silent.

    Surely even Labour supporters must question what is going on and certainly deserve better representation than they are getting from the Hart led group.

  9. Interesting post, Tony, attracting some good comments, excluding your resident one man revolutionary at 02:08 of course, and useful information for those of us unable to attend the council meeting.

    This Clive Hart saga seems to be ongoing and the man appears even more tenacious in clinging to his bit of power than Gordon Brown was at No 10. One wonders whether this will end with a dignified exit or bitter recriminations.

    I would have to say I admire the way Mark Nottingham is now standing back from it all rather than using his blog for muck raking. If it were me treated the way he has been, I would be spitting vengeance.

  10. How about a guessing game to see who the complaints against Mark Nottingham have come from?

    Clive Hart's gang? My guesses are:

    Clive Hart
    Sandra Hart
    Alan Poole
    Kay Dark
    Jennifer Matterface
    Michelle Fenner

    They all deserve complaints themselves for bringing the party into disrepute with their sleazy cover-ups.

  11. How about Will Scobie for leader. He may be young but he has what most of the rest seem to lack, a brain. Mark Nottingham wrote highly of him on his blog a while back although, I see from the infamous twitter page of you know who, that he has already been drawn into meetings with THE LEADER. Falls to floor and grovels at the thought of the illustrious toupeed one.

  12. Anon 10.57
    Therein lies part of the problem. Clive is no more than a puppet leader with his gang egging him on. They are afraid that if he stands down, they will be exposed for their parts in this sorry affair.

  13. Alan Poole was pathetic last night. Stumbling over his speeches. Peter Campbell put forward an amendment which was out of order. Hart had not prepared properly. Nicholson remains best of them. The thin talent on the Labour front bench is obvious.

    Why is Dave Green on the backbenches?

    They choose Kay Dark who almost never speaks. Mark Nottingham is an opponent the Tories fear, Moores blog shows that.

  14. Agree 12:05 but why are Nicholson and Green so quiet on the Nottingham affair. Surely now is the time for these grandees of the local party to show their mettle and bring some order to the chaos.

  15. And we are supposed to give our private data to these idiots, none of whom can be 'trusted' ?

  16. Anon 12.18
    Nicholson is a close supporter/friend of Kay Dark as is his wife Cllr Barbara Nicholson.

  17. See our rebellious advocate is up, after blogging into the early hours with his calls for resistance. First it was stop paying the public pretenders and now it census rebellion. Don't you ever tire of your boring rubbish?

    We were having a sensible grown up discussion here about the Labour group leadership and up you pop with your nonsense. Does it never dawn on you that nobody is interested.

  18. 01:43 Your information explains a lot but what about Dave Green. He seems highly regarded here in Ramsgate and to be no pushover. How can he sit on the back bench behind such inadequates and keep quiet.

  19. Anon 2.48
    If that's the best you can contribute, you shouldn't bother. You should be ashamed of yourself. I assume you are one of Clive's buddies using snide innuendos and bullying techniques to keep party members in line. I doubt the Conservatives would bother with such a low class insult. Personally, I have a lot of respect for Dave Green as a Councillor and the Mayor of Ramsgate.

  20. Lets keep it polite and tasteful Ladies and Gents

  21. A quick point, views expressed on these pages, are the responsibility of the author, please send me an email if anything needs attention.

    Its difficult not to leave some trace of your internet usage so for the person leaving offensive comments, you may have to take responsibility for you comments

  22. Anon 10:57 seeing Anon 01:43, I reckon you could add the Cllr Nicholson to the complainants list as well.

    The more I read (or don't read) and hear the more convinced of a total stitch up I am. Clive Hart's supporters have shown nothing despite repeated opportunities to address the accusations.
    There was an open letter to the Labour leaders on one of the other blogs but it got no comments or response. They've also been very quiet on the blogging scene which I assume means they are afraid of stirring things up and dropping themselves deeper in it.

    Come the elections the conservatives will have a field day unless they sort this mess quickly and cleanly. An apology would be a good the public who they are supposed to serve as well as Cllr nottingham

  23. An open letter to Labour from bloggers
    Written by Matt B · first published 02/02/2011

    Dear Clive and Other High standing spokesperson for Labour Thanet,

    It has come to our attention that you have failed to answer the questions of the press and public in regards to your reply to Mark Nottingham. With the ellection looming we am sure that you want to be about the business of slagging of the Conservatives so if you would be so kind as to come back and post a few more answers we can have this matter cleared up by lunchtime.

    Question Number One: (Submitted by Thanet Star readers)
    Did Kay Dark deceive the selection process?

    Question Number Two: (Submitted by Matt B, Thanet Star)
    Would Clive Hart as leader have known if Kay Dark was attending the meetings she Mark Nottingham has suggested she is not being fully truethful about?

    Question Three: (Asked by Tony of Big News Margate)
    Is Clive resigning?

    Question Number 3b: (Logical follow up)
    Who will replace Clive?

    Question Number Four: (Submitted by Thanet Star readers)
    Did Councillor Hart write a favourable report for the selection process about Kay Dark suitability as a candidate?

    Question Number Five: (Asked by almost everyone)
    Why doesn't Councillor Hart publish his evidence? He claims that there were reviews and such - well, where are the findings?

  24. Bluenote, you say you "would be spitting vengeance" only because it serves you to continue to stir the messy pot in which Labour have immersed themselves locally. If this were happening, to you, in your Tory Party - and similar things have happened and will happen in the future - you would be remaining silent and encouraging others to do the same.

    It is what Councillors like Wells did when they faced the embarrassment of being led by the twin oafs Ezekiel and Latchford. Public vows of support and rejection of comments as trouble-making and the like.

    When politicians of all Parties start to condemn bad behaviour, practices or whatever consistently - whatever their origin - the electorate may regard them more favourably than they do now. For the moment, they are nothing more than opportunistic seekers of publicity and "power".

    It is a shame that you toady so strongly to one side of the debate.

  25. As I have commented before, the Labour leadership locally have done nothing to inspire confidence in themselves as a future, governing administration. They are wasting an opportunity which for me, as a (continuing) Labour voter, is a great shame.

    It is interesting that, despite their woes, they are clearly still seen as a threat by the Tories- if the continuing stream of bile and negative campaigning on "Doctor" Moores's blog is anything to go by.

    In his latest offering, he not only turns waspishly on anyone challenging his viewpoint - no change there then - but also asks if any of the Labour front-bench have relevant "business" experience as justification for their running the Council. He is clearly looking in the mirror and holding himself up as the yardstick - with his long list of claimed achievements and experience.

    Yes, experience of business is a great asset, but so is experience in many other career areas - or indeed the experience of being without a career. Life teaches us all a great deal in many ways.

    If the Labour Party is so lacking, why does the "Doctor" lambast and lampoon them so forcefully. Dogmatic hatred or fear?

  26. 08:08
    The subject of this Blog is Clive Hart, there are so many questions asked but not answered,His Resignation statement is like the man himself questionable, all old Tory issues have been dealt with, Keep to the point which is Clive Hart and the Thanet Labour Group,it is truly depressing that the serious respected grandee politicians Nicholson and Harrison in the Labour Group, people of integrity are keeping very quiet, time to speak up Gentlemen,
    by not speaking you appear to be condoning Harts refusal to answer his critics,Mark has behaved impeccably, he should have his questions answered.
    The clock is ticking , the election is looming and the "festering boil" remains untreated

  27. I thought Moore's comments on his blog were funny. Nice picture too. He is the only blogger left who doesn't do 'bile'. 8.29 does not miss any opportunity anywhere to say how much he hates him and it gets boring after a time. Stick to the point, Clive's Labour is in a mess of its own making and none of them has a proper job.

  28. Anon 08.08, the subject of the blog is actually the recent Council meeting. Tony has made points about several players - Labour and Tory. It may suit you to focus on Clive Hart, but that is merely your preference.

    The wider point is the behaviour of politicians - all politicians. There are good and bad in all Parties, and, as I have said, the local Labour leadership are doing nothing to distinguish themselves just now. Personally, I am condoning nothing - though as I am in no position of authority, that hardly matters.

    What I dislike is the duplicitous hypocrisy that we see all the time, and to which I have referred here. Throw dirt when it relates to your opponents; maintain silence when the dirt is in your own backyard. All Parties do it. It would be good if they didn't. When hypocrites do it, pointing out their hypocrisy is entirely fair. Point made.

  29. 09.49, I don't know "Doctor" Moores personally, so it is impossible to say I hate him. I do hate spin, hypocrisy, arrogance and pomposity - and think there should be more balance, honesty and even-handedness.

    As to your suggestion that the Councillor doesn't do bile, I am just wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes. You should wipe the blinkers from yours too, friend.

  30. Interesting thread and lots of valid comments.

    With regard to the recent ones, I am also in no position of authority but have more than a passing interest in the political scene in Thanet and have read enough to gather that when a councillor does stand up and speak out about the mess in their own party, they get lambasted by their colleagues which is a very sorry state of affairs.

    There must be many in the local labour group who are burying their consciences in the misaligned view that they are doing so for the good of their party.

    The question remains,Why are they covering for and protecting a lazy councillor?

  31. Hands up anyone who would like to visit the dentist and have their teeth pulled by by a work experience teenager then.

    Who else wants their future in the hands of Clive's unemployed mates then? Remind us which one has a job?

    You make me laugh, then when you write -

    "experience of business is a great asset, but so is experience in many other career areas - or indeed the experience of being without a career. -

  32. 8.08 Harrison and Nicholson have turned a blind eye to Kay Dark's inadequacies for many years. Don't expect them to do the right thing.

    Clive Hart is just continuing in the same vein of keeping the extra allowances rolling in and stuff the voters.

    he will lose Labour the election.

  33. There might be a parkway station, but there will not be line improvements over and above the signalling work already scheduled by network rail. A region which has just received a 40 minute improvement in journey times gets another few hundred million for 10 more minutes. Its debatable whether time improvements can be made without putting a viaduct over the top of canterbury cathederal, so don't hold your breath......

    Oh, and high speed 2. I think the build there is scheduled to go on for the next decade or two, so we might get considered around 2030. By which time half of the cabinet will be fertilizer.

    The parkway is just more time and money wasted on the white elephant that is manston. Their own masterplan says a railway station might be needed when they hit 1,000,000 passengers. they might get 30,000 this year! Whoop-de-woo!

    They need to start doing something tangible, instead of following a dream that has too many unknowns.

    Hart etc are morons, but not quite in the league of sandys, carter, and bayford for supporting such a waste of PUBLIC money.

    They'd be better of spending the money on birth control to stop the "3rd generation unemployed" breeding more spongers into society.

  34. There was a letter printed in yesterday's Gazette from someone stating that a railway extention used to run from Birchington to Manston Airport, & suggesting that this would be a better route (again).

  35. Anon 10.31, presumably you believe that only certain people should be entitled to stand for public office - and perhaps only certain people should be entitled to vote. It follows logically. Most would say that is a rather out-dated take on democracy.

  36. Anon 8:08, there are some thirty six comments on this post, at this time, and contributed just one of them. I would also suggest that it is far less damning of the local Labour party saga than many of the others yet, you choose it as the one to attack.

    Is this because, by using a blogging name, you feel able to identify me as what you percieve to be the opposition. Yes, I have never made any secret of my dislike for Labour and what is happening locally comes as no surprise. Indeed, it was such behaviour that drove me away from my Socialist upbringing in the first place. Nonetheless, I do not agree with all things Tory and most certainly not all things Coalition, but that is another issue.

    If, as I suspect, you are a Labour supporter you should be far more concerned about other, perhaps normally friendlier, people's views of the Hart/Mottingham issue than mine. I am, if you are to be believed, already biased.

    In conclusion, let me say that I have in the main stayed out of this debate, but left others to do the stirring. This mess is of the local Labour party's own making and far be it for me to do anything but sit back and enjoy it.

    Anyway, more important things like rugby to enjoy this weekend.

  37. Tony all we need is simple answers to simple questions are you reading this Cllr Hart?
    1.You said you will resign are you going to, yes or no
    2.Cllr Nottingham asked you as leader a number of questions are you going to reply Yes or no
    3. Are you going to continue to serve with Cllr Nottingham in your Group, yes or no
    4. were you involved in Cllr Nottinghams deselection, yes or no
    5. do you believe that Cllr mrs Dark has carried out her duties more conscientiously than Cllr Nottingham, yes or no
    6.when are you going Cllr Hart not a question but a heartfelt cry from someone fed up with your leadership

  38. Well framed and reasonable questions, 4:15, but don't hold your breath on a reply. It would seem the last thing the local Labour supporters, good people of Northwood and the larger Thanet public are going to get out of Cllr. Hart, is answers.

    Whatever the outcome of the May local election it would be good to see Hart dumped so that the Labour contingent, in office or opposition, has to re-organise. They might then think twice in the future about their tendency to ignore the public.

  39. Anon 1:58

    "We were having a sensible grown up discussion here about the Labour group leadership"

    Bit of an oxymoron isn't it??

    The world, on the brink of financial meltdown, hyper-inflation, global food and energy shortages, with nuclear WW3 looking more likely by the day and Bluenose is having a sensible, grown up discussion slagging off the Labour leadership. You make me despair, honestly you do.

  40. 9:11 you seem to be obsessed with me and are now attributing to me comments I never made. Quite bizarre and you really ought to get something prescribed for it before it becomes an entrenched phobia.

    Agree with you about the state of the world though. However, we cannot, out of curtesy to the blogger, divert too far from the subject matter of the original posting. Don't think the TDC meeting covered world food shortages or impending nuclear wars. Too busy with their politically motivated internal squabbles.

  41. Bluenote a point whilst the meeting did not refer to impeding nuclear war Clive Hart did describe the budget as an atomic bomb or a bomb of a budget if my memory is correct. Not a reference many under thirty would understand

  42. Interesting aside, Tony, and you are right about atom bombs as it were. We seem to have moved on to bigger things with cobalt, hydrogen and thermo-nuclear taking centre stage in turn. Now it is the so called 'dirty bomb' in a suitcase.

    If Clive Hart felt the budget was bomb of a budget, I wonder how he would describe his spat with Mark Nottingham. A bit of a bummer perhaps!

  43. I think Clive Hart is a ticking timebomb for his party.

    Bluenote, I'm sure you don't need encouraging but you have been on form. Very amused by your last comment re Clive.

  44. 09;35
    Ticking time bombs need to be filled with an explosive mixture, the Labour leader is empty and totally devoid of anything explosive,even Mark could not ignite the fuse and so the damp squib continues as leader of the opposition. Woe is us in the Labour group

  45. Anon 7:53

    'the Labour leader is empty and totally devoid of anything explosive'

    I heard rumour that Clive's fuse has been well and truly ignited in the past. A short fuse rather than damp squib from what I gather...

  46. Perhaps the shortness of his fuse is a Dark secret and therein lies the truth.