Wednesday, November 23, 2011

LABOUR SHOCK- As Clive Hart finds something positive to say




How pleasing to find local Labour actually has something positive to say, god knows we've heard enough doom and gloom from leader Cllr Clive Hart over the last few years, it sounds to me, as if, when he's not moaning about Cliftonville, he's done pretty much as is possible to dampen expectations in Thanet.


So far during his leadership, local Labour has fought against affordable social housing, (someone ought to tell Cllr Matterface who seemed unaware in last weeks Gazette), fighting jobs in a shabby U turn on Manston, fighting inward investment for new upgraded rail infrastructure, including a new "Parkway" Station which could help cut journey times to around an hour from London, simply I suspect because they don't have the nous to understand the psychological or marketing boast that it would give the area.


Well anyway Clive has made an rare and upbeat comment of sorts concerning lottery funding for the Dreamland site, starting with "good news" in the first sentence, a tad negative in the second half " empty for far to long" followed by "Dreamland has blighted the town since......."


It's a start.


Anyway its good not to hear of down and outs living in Cliftonville, dumping grounds, references to pedophiles or indeed smelly seaweed. Well done to Clive for trying.

39 comments:

  1. Parkway station will cut nothing off journey times to London, that is the worst kind of mis-information possible. Parkway station is a white elephant and the money would be better spent on up-grading Thanet's existing SEVEN stations.

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  2. I'd prefer a light railway (or even an underground) connecting Margate & Ramsgate, with stops at both Westwood Cross & Manston...

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  3. Readit you don't understand the bigger picture as its being suggested that the high speed line is extended from Ashford. Still that's the labour conditioning

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  4. It's also being suggested that the other Thanet stations will lose yet more services on the London to Victoria (via Medway) route.

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  5. I'm in total shock for I thought Clive was the complete harbinger of doom. Perhaps he is not the Devil's disciple after all, but I will not hold my breath on it.

    As for Parkway, I think I would prefer to accept the advice of a railway man like Tony over a retired civil engineer with a chip on his shoulder about all Ramsgate proximity developments. Too many retired folk locally oppose jobs for those still needing to earn a living.

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  6. The bigger picture is that it would cost over £1 billion to extend the HS1 line to Ramsgate. Building a new station at Manston would be peanuts compared to this, probably less than the cost of the Turner.
    So a HS1 extension to Ramsgate is never going to happen just to shave a few minutes of the journey time.
    Unless Infatil pay for it a station at Manston is never going to happen with Ramsgate station so close.

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  7. Being a railway man doesn't, apparently, equip Tony to comment on CCTV on trains - rather than in Oxford taxis - so why should we pay any attention to his views on the proposed parkway station?

    That said, and with the benefit only of being a daily commuter to London, I would suggest that a parkway station on the existing line would be a complete waste of money. And is there really any even remote prospect of the dedicated high speed line being extended to Thanet? Given the bids for faster services elsewhere in the country, serving much bigger population centres, I should have thought Thanet will be a very low priority indeed.

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  8. Tony, I believe you are sympathetic to the campaign against live exports from Ramsgate - if not with the tactics of some campaigners. I guess you may be an animal-lover?

    If I am right, and you are also against the fur trade, why do you have an advert for animal skin hats on your blog?

    If any of my assumptions are wrong, then apologies.

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  9. Let the facts speak for themselves it takes 1hr 16 mins from Ramsgate to St Pancras.
    Somehow I do not think there is any justification to spend all that money just to knock off 16 mins from a train journey.

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  10. Anon 12.15 I will think that you will find that Tony has no control over those ads. But you yourself do. Those clever people at blogger remember what topics you have been looking at and taylor the ads accorgingly. You must of been looking at fur coats!.

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  11. So you fly in from Malaga to Manston for £29.99 and then pay £38.20 to get to London. No wonder Manston is a non starter unless you live in Thanet.

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  12. Quite incredible! Tony does a post on Clive Hart talking about Dreamland and the party faithful manage to divert it onto Parkway, Manston and fur hats.

    Getting back to the point, I still think Hart is a wanker!

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  13. 12:15 I have no control over the adverts, I can make broad blocks on things but nothing specific like fur coats however if you can get me the exact URL FOR THE AD I can block that particular one.

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  14. 10 30 having a brain doesn't equip you with the sense to avoid this blog

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  15. If you read the post 03:01 you'll see that Tony also mentioned Manston Parkway. You can read I take it?

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  16. True, Peter, but what about Manston and the fur trade and why is no-one discussing the main thread on Clive Hart and the lottery help for Dreamland. Oh, and I still think Hart is a wanker.

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  17. Tony, thank you for your 03.38 reply; I was completely unaware of the advert workings. The url is:

    http://www.furhatworld.com/?gclid=CJOl_uv5z6wCFYYPfAodCU11qQ

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  18. 6 59 hopefully job done let me know this should now be blocked I shall take a look at whether I can block similar http://www.furhatworld.com/?gclid=CJOl_uv5z6wCFYYPfAodCU11qQ

    and ads from http://www.furhatworld.com will no longer appear on this site

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  19. He's right on all counts! You may not like it, but... There will be no massive jobs increase in Manston, because their business plan is pure fiction. The social housing is not the problem, the problem is inherited immigration and social housing will add to Thanet's woes not help it.

    You can blether all you like, but the fact remains he has consistently been the most accurate and sensible councillor in Thanet.

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  20. all this talk of decreasing journey times to manston airport is making the assumption that londoners are going to go there rather than heathrow, gatwick, city, stansted which all have established routes, cheaper and much shorter train journeys right into the terminal.

    Parkway would not actually speed up trains to thanet, but ADD time to the journey in the first instance - station stops add journey time.

    The only way to increase speeds is to improve signalling (happening in east kent in 2015), get rid of level crossings (cut unesco world heritage site Canterbury in half) or build a new line.

    We'll get a few minutes benefit from the signalling, which will be taken away by adding a new station in.

    Anyone who would build an airport specific station with public money for millions further from the airport than existing stations for an airport with less passengers annually than heathrow handles in a morning is a fool. and I'm a tory voter!

    Surely you must know all of this tony working on the railways? Or was strategy not your department?

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  21. 09:10 What exactly has you being a Tory voter got to do with the pros and cons of Manston, Parkway or journey times. I am a Labour voter and I am appalled that our local party seem to oppose everything that might bring work to Thanet without even giving it a chance.

    As for 0652, if Clive Hart is right on all counts including social housing, why is one of his TDC colleagues, Cllr. Matterface, stating the need for such in last week's Gazette. Don't they ever talk to each other about what is party policy.

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  22. Anon 10:50

    He thinks being a Tory voter makes him sound more intelligent and knowledgeable.

    Mind you things are bad when Nigel Farage increasingly sounds like the voice of reason!

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  23. Don't worry...Hart will be back to his usual 'Cheerful' self next face he uses

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  24. Come on, guys, how about putting your minds to what happens now there is no-one with a majority at TDC. 26 Tories, 26 Labour and 4 Independents.

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  25. 07:48 There is no one party with a clear majority in parliament or many EU governments but things can still work.

    Sadly it is not down to us mere bloggers, but the good sense and spirit of co-operation existing amongst our elected representatives. In Thanet, of course, that is probably no more than wishful thinking.

    Hence it will be chaos as usual.

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  26. So where do TDC's parties stand this saturday afternoon with John Worrow resigning the tory whip? Is Clive now in charge?

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  27. Although the Conservatives only had one more seat than Labour from May's election their percentage share of the vote was considerable higher. So John Worrow has resigned the party whip, but he was elected by Conservative voters.

    There is not suddenly some moral right for Clive to take over the leadership, but no doubt all sorts of wheeling and dealing will go on.

    Surely the only truly democratic way is for Worrow to stand down as a councillor and have a new election in his ward. If Labour win that, then they would have a right to lead the TDC, but any other way is an affront to democracy, No doubt, being Thanet, such an affront is precisely what we will get.

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  28. Watch your house price plunge if Thanet becomes a Labour council. No one with money will want to live here.

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  29. I admire John Worrow's action in resigning the whip,he is a man of principle and Birchington can be proud of him.I have no doubt that he would win the seat as an Independent.
    There are issues,live exports is one,that should cross party lines and not be tied down by the petty dogma of the current council.

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  30. In response to Ann Adley, since when has live exports been within the remit of TDC to ban. Surely Laura Sandys has done the most positive thing by seeking to get the issue raised in parliament.

    As for John Worrow, I have no problem with his principles, but he should see what the electoroate in his ward think of them. He was elected under a Tory flag and it would be dishonest for him to continue under any other.

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  31. I agree with you, Anon. I think elected representatives who "cross the floor" should always resign and put themselves back before the electorate. Their usual argument is that they were elected as "an individual" but that is arrogant, vain nonsense. They are elected because of the banner under which they campaign.

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  32. [quote]They are elected because of the banner under which they campaign.[quote]
    As one of the electorate I listen to what each candidate believes they can do as my personal representative not to which party they are aligned.
    As seen in the debate on the EU in Parliament recently,towing the ''party line'' makes a mockery of our democratic system.
    As far as TDC and live exports are concerned I know that there is so much more they could do to stop this but as with many other issues they prefer it to be kicked into the long grass for reasons only known to themselves.
    Clive Hart may moan a lot be he tells it as it is and I admire his honesty.

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  33. Ann, whilst you may listen to what candidates proclaim, the vast majority of people vote for the candidate of the party they support. Furthermore, the costs of running Mr. Worrow's campaign, including the leaflets stating his claim to be elected, were p[aid for by his party. Hence, he should resign.

    I am sure your view would be different if a Labour councillor had resigned the whip and a few weeks back that nearly happened.

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  34. My dear Ann Adley, perhaps you can tell us what will happen when our once green and pleasant land is covered in useless wind turbines, we have priced ourself out of world markets, all our farmers have gone bust and the land is covered in social housing for our ever increasing immigrant population.

    How will we live, what will we eat and who should we then blame. I know where I will be pointing the finger!

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  35. They should turn golf courses back into farm land.

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  36. I'm afraid that Ann Adley is allowing her imagination to get the better of her when it comes to the unfortunate issue of animal exports. Perhaps she would be kind enough to write and tell mevhat can be done, within the law and powers available to TDC that has not been explored or pursued to date?

    I would suggest that she is quite misinformed or simply mischevious to suggest that this has been 'kicked nto the long grass' a statement which is quite untrue given the efforts being made by all concerned parities to end this appalling trade!

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  37. Further to my 10.09 post on Saturday, I remain firmly of the view that John Worrow should put himself before the electorate. Anon of 13.30 yesterday makes excellent points.

    That said, I think Bob Bayford's comments urging the same are hypocritical and duplicitous. As others have pointed out, he and his Party said nothing about an Independent/Tory defection some time ago. All Parties play the same game - they only urge a by-election when their Party is not the beneficiary of the defection. It is this sort of behaviour that (rightly) gives politicians a bad name.

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  38. 0752 Thanks for saying I made some excellent points, but then, so do you.

    I agree with you 100% about the attitudes of political advantage taken by the parties and, as we can see here, Tories are calling for Worrow to offer himself for re-election whilst known Labour supporters applaud his 'high principled' stand.

    It is, of course, the same with the proposed new constituency boundaries. Whereas Clive Hart and others in Thanet Labour accuse Laura Sandys of seeking electoral advantage by wanting the Stour villages included, they claim historic association to support the additions of Salmestone and Garlinge. They both seek political advantage so why not be honest about it instead of treating us as idiots.

    Mind you, as we have agreed before, you and I are not going to change it. Such is the beast!

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