Saturday, January 22, 2011

Thanet planning calamity

Thanet council is hardly renown for its strategic thinking and planning has often been in the frame for its ability to cock up.

It seems that planning bods can never do enough for developers and the recent decision to allow a development of 3 storey housing in Margate which will result in the closure of the Pharmacy Gallery in the old town after millions have been spent on Art and culture.

What always surprises me is how over the years Thanet planning have got away with so much, a particular costly balls up, was the one in Ramsgate in which residents were given misleading information and never informed that a planning application had changed to allow buildings overlook their homes.

Anyway for more detail click here


  1. If you dont think they are doing a good job now wait until the new Localism bill comes in when councils and other groups csn do s lot more without the need for planning permission.

    A "power of competence" would give local authorities - including some parish councils - the right to do "anything apart from that which is specifically prohibited".

    Local communities will be able to propose development which, if it meets certain safeguards and gets 50% of support in a local referendum, will be able to built without planning permission.

    The idea is that parish councils and "neighbourhood forums" come together to decide where new shops, offices or homes should go and what green spaces to protect - which is then voted on by local people in local referendums. They will be able to define developments which should have automatic planning permission.

  2. The lunatics have taken over the assylum !!

  3. on the contrary, I would expect that with an issue such as this such powers give us real power to acton local community interest, not by national guidance.

  4. As usual Tony, there's a much bigger picture and you only show your readers one part of it and not the whole perspective!

  5. What rubbish the flying Doctor spouts as usual. Maybe sometimes Tony you have blinkers on but not "as usual".
    I think he owes you an apology for his glib statement. He should understand that you often speak for the majority of Thanet's residents whereas he only speaks for a few.

  6. So one councilor thinks that giving TDC more powers is in Thanet's best interest. It would be if the the public perception of the council was different and they were not seen as secretive and working for the interest of themselves and their pals. It may not be true but that is the impression they give. They often hide behind the commercially sensative criteria even when it is not. Only when this changes will the public back TDC in planning matters.
    But one consequence of the Localism Bill is that it will be a criminal offence not to declare an interest rather than leave it to the Standards Committee which is being scrapped.

  7. If Dr M speaks only for the views of a few, how come he gets elected by a majority with sufficient interest in local affairs to actually turn out and vote. Perhaps one of Thanet's biggest problems is its preponderance of whingers in local press and media but a severe lack of doers. At least the likes of Simon Moore and Chris Wells are prepared to turn out and do something.

    On the subject of the lunatics, Anon 11:09, I think if you care to check, you will find that they returned to their padded cells last May.

  8. Bluenote you are right, Simon does get a majority of the 35% of residents that turned up to vote in 2007 but that leaves rather a lot that may have very different views to him. You may also recall that only 2 of the 3 conservatives that stood in his ward were elected, the other elected councillor being an independent. A few votes either way and he could have been the looser.

  9. Anon, you hit the nail right on the head and only served to support my allegation that Thanet has an overdose of whingers and far to few doers. As you point out, they cannot even be bothered to vote.

    Far too many people claim to speak for silent majorities on the assumption that if folk do not vote for then they must be against. Largely they just could not care less and, even if they do, most choose to do nothing about it. In truth, whilst you and I might have differing opinions I very much doubt that either of us represents the majority.

  10. I am very much for the conservation of Margate Old Town but then at the same time some bold planning decisions have got to be made to regenerate the area. I admit I haven't seen the plans but surely if something is built in the old style using old architecture surely this is something worth considering.

  11. Bluenote, you seem to be falling into the same trap as many of our councillors who think if they do the bidding of their supporters (35%) they have the right to speak for the majority.

    In a democracy we all have the right to free speech and also the right to vote or not, this does not make a non-voters opinion any less valid, in fact a non-voter who expresses an opinion later is likely to be motivated by an injustice which has bypassed the usual party animals.

  12. Bluenote, I am pleased to see that - based on your customary, spirited defence of "Doctor" Moores - you will be speaking against the Coalition's proposal to limit further the rights of trades unions to call strikes when less than a certain percentage of the membership votes for action. You clearly believe that a majority is a majority. Full stop.

  13. As I wrote earlier, there is more detail here than Tony is prepared to share or indeed, other readers are prepared to listen to.

    And if the few familiar critics, who moved across from ECR and elsewhere think they represent the majority interest in Thanet, then good luck to them is all I say! Some of us actually get off our rear-ends and try and make a difference to the future well-being of our community, rather than pour scorn from the sidelines.

    The proposal that was approved is similar to the previous 2005 application, but the design of the building has been changed, so that it no longer hangs over the highway.

    One of the major issues considered at the planning meeting was the impact on the amount of light entering the neighbouring property, which houses Beeping Bush. Members heard that, when the previous planning application came in, this issue had been looked at and it was concluded that there would be no significant impact which would justify refusal of that application.

    Following a request from the Local Government Ombudsman, an independent light survey was carried out to assess the impact of the development, particularly on the art gallery. That report concluded that the proposed development would have “a very minor effect” on the skylight and sunlight available to the studio.

    Cllr. Ken Gregory, Chairman of the Planning Committee, said: “Members were made aware that there were concerns from Beeping Bush about the loss of light to their property. To assess that, before making a decision on the planning application, we visited the site for ourselves, so that we could have a full understanding of the issues.”

  14. Once again the Doctor's comments start by insulting Tony. Tony you must be doing a good job if he has to resort to this. The Doctor's view of how the new building would affect the light to the gallery is very different from the gallery owner's :

    "The Government Ombudsman forced TDC to commission an independent lighting survey in 2008, which stated that the gallery will lose between 48-78% of its annual sunlight".

    48 to 78% is not a small amount.

    So who do you believe? The gallery owner who is trying his best for Margate or the man from the council that nobody trusts?

  15. The "Doctor" - Moores that is - customarily insults everyone apart from the toadies who continue to visit his site and say warm things about his views and opinions, or his much trumpeted personal achievements - of which there are, he says, many.

    His latest post on Thanet Life heaps his usual dose of petty vindictiveness and rudeness on the local Labour Party. One can only assume that, in this local election year, he and his Tory cronies are running scared of the Labour Party and feel the need to discredit and insult them rather than explain the merits and benefits of their own policies.

    If Labour is the discredited, spent force he and his followers would have us believe, why bother?

  16. Readit, your chosen nom de plume has a certain irony attaching to it for what you invariably fail to do, prior to responding to a comment, is to read it. Had you done so in this instance you would have read that I said "I doubt that either of us represents the majority."

    Unfortunately, and equally all too frequently, the Thanet whinge fraternity love to start off their missives with "Most people" or "A majority of people" when there is simply no way they could know or prove that. Indeed, there probably are no majority views and, at best, just a coalition of similiar ones.

    As to our elected representatives, they can only put themselves forward and do their best to serve if elected, even if the turnout is low. That people choose to not exercise their right to vote is a shame but it does not make the election any less valid. Nor does it give anyones else the right to claim that the majority who did not vote all oppose. As I said before, most of them probably could not care less.

    On defending Dr. Moore, I actually do not think he needs my defence but, if we switch that to support, then, yes, I would rather have an intelligent and educated representative like him than some neanderthall who thinks shouting and blustering in the chamber is the way to conduct council business.

    Finally, to the person who raised the question about me speaking against proposals to limit the powers of unions, all I can say is "in your dreams," sunshine. If it were down to me I would ban unions as the outdated throwbacks to darker times that they have become. There has to be better ways of negotiating in a modern civilised world.

  17. Aw bless, Bluenote, and you press others for consistency in argument and debate! Your line supporting "Doctor" Moores and his representational credit is sharply at odds with the view you have just expressed. But still, we have all seen through you over time. Enjoy your Tuesday.

    I am still laughing at the little spat between Tony Flaig and the "Doctor" over on Thanet Life. For the "Doctor" to accuse anyone else - as he does Tony - of being full of self-importance is one of the most hysterical bits of parody I have seen in years. The "Doctor" should go on the comedy stage. Something else he could add to his list of professed achievements.

  18. Quite bizarre, Anon, for how you can read a conflict of argument into my posts here is beyond me. As for seeing through folk, well, it is not difficult to spot your tendency to twist the debate round if it is not going your way.

    Let's get this straight once and for all. I have no time for all these whingers in Thanet who forever complain but never do and I am well to the right of anything you could possibly imagine, even the good Dr M and his friends who are positive moderates by comparison. They are just more acceptable than the other lot. Fair enough!

  19. You see only what you want to see, Bluenote, and if it is not dyed blue, you hate it. I guess you would rather have a neandertal Tory than a bright, capable left-winger. Well there are lots of both in both Parties, but certainly a lot of the former locally.

    And don't confuse capability and intellect with blatant self-promotion, self publicising and the constant rude, patronising, and arrogant put-down of those with opposing views and opinions. Think on that next time you pay homage on the blog of "Doctor" Moores.

  20. Speaking as one that would presumably be accused of being a Neanderthal Tory, I find the implication that I am surrounded by 'bright left wingers' locally hysterically funny!

    The only bright left winger I am aware of locally is seen as a threat by the failed local labour leadership, who are intent on ejecting him from being a labour councillor.

    As a local conservative, the arrival of Clive Hart as Labour leader locally has been a great gift - I support him totally and hope he continues in the position for many years to come.

  21. Actually, I do not support everything dyed blue for some of it is far too, dare I say it, 'liberal' for my taste. Nonetheless, I find the suggestion that in Thanet there are bright young left wingers quite mind blowing. Where precisely? Please name just one, excluding of course poor Mark Nottingham who Hart and cronies seem intent on deselecting.

    As to paying homage, well agreeing on some issues is hardly that. Methinks it is you, my lefty combatant, who sees what you want to see.

  22. Bluenote, all you are ever capable of doing is throwing back comments that are made against you. It looks very much like the tactics of the playground, but is usually a signal that you have run out of argument and are acknowledging defeat.

    You like to convey a sense of superiority towards others in what you offer, and often sneer at others' use of language and their power of argument. You are in no position to crow.

    To you and "out of the woodwork again" Councillor Wells...I never said whether there are or are not bright left-wingers locally. It is not for me to comment. Equally I did not say that you, Councillor, are a neandertal - a term initially used by Bluenote.

    I said that there are neandertal Tories - adding that there are a good few locally, including at Parliamentary level - just as you say there are Neandertal Labour Representatives. A question of balance.

    The fact that you, Bluenote, and you, Wells, come back with silly, spiteful, name-calling - something you have condemned previously, Bluenote (aka hypocrite) - and puerile comments against Labour says a great deal about the right-wing locally.

    Again, instead of ever answering comments or questions about your Tory Party, you are capable only of swipes against labour "in response". I guess it's in keeping with the squalid vituprerations from "Doctor" Moores, who posts anti-Labour rants instead of anything explaining and promoting Tory policies.

    Again, Labour is, you say, derided and hated by the electorate after its' 13 years in power nationally. Why are you all so scared of the Party, then?

  23. Mmm, 10:30 AM, think you must have swallowed a little black capsule for that much bile to flow in one post. I take it you are not to keen on our right wing contributors then.

  24. Anon, 10:30, the day I acknowledge any kind of defeat to you is not scheduled in my calender. You rant and rave all you want and read what you choose into my comments. I know where I stand and that is good enough for me.

  25. Simon has always spelt out, with clarity, the economic reality the UK faces.

    Some years ago he took umbrage at what was being published on a local blog naming a senior police officer and making points about failures to act on security warnings given before the 22.9.89 bombing of Deal Royal Marines Barracks.

    I feel sure that Simon has the generosity of spirit to recognise now that the blogger was entirely right. Now lies in the Admiralty Board report are exposed. Now it is established how non-official (paramilitary) live fire training organisations were founded at Deal Barracks between 75 and 82.

    Now it is shown that such organisations used two Kent gun ranges. One in Thanet and one near Dartford.

    Now it is established (letter from Minister of Defence) that the paramilitary organisations founded at Deal had no Crown authority.

    Making their activity an offence against the Unlawful Drilling Act 1819 (Offences Kent Plod failed to pursue).

    We now know that James SHORTT (A bogus former SAS man) founded the organisations at Deal Barracks 75 to 82. We now know that he was a director of a company dealing with Dr Wouter Basson whose other Porton Down contact was Dr David Kelly.

    And we know that devious Jack Straw used his position as Justice Secretary to repeal the Unlawful Drilling Act 1819 whilst complaint to Kent Plod under its terms was CURRENT (Re SHORTT and certain members of Thanet tory assns)

    And hence certain paramilitary inclined Thanet tory types being grateful indeed to devious Jack Straw.

    And Simon, anxious not to be judged by the company he keeps, also grateful to Straw ?

  26. What utter grabage, Retired. How many times are you going to repeat this totally unproven rubbish? Mind you, it is a good way to finish off every debate.

  27. < a href=""> Simon's blog re Iado martial art </a)

    A small world as this Japanese master trained ex police officer Michael FINN in the 70s? Wasn't FINN an associate of International Law Enforcement Training Agency Brian WARE (see Cabinet Security linkie above)

    ILETA was founded by James SHORTT at Deal Barracks 1976.

  28. Retired is back - boring - time for my doze..ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  29. Retired, on the subject of false flag attacks, what about the Sears Tower in Chicago? Looking rather ominous, what?

  30. Retired, you poor old chap, do you not realise that we can spot when you send anonymous responses to yourself. If you must do it at least have the decency to change the style a bit rather than treating the rest of us as total cretins!

  31. Why do people feel it necessary to put speech marks around "Doctor". As far as I am aware he is qualified to use that title if he wishes.