Friday, December 09, 2011

Unreliable Notes from the night Labour gained control of Thanet Council

This is my personal view of the night Labour gained control of Thanet Council, made more unreliable, in that my smartphone didn't save the notes, from the first half of the meeting, so I'll go big on atmosphere and er backdrop.

I left early for last night's council meeting thinking everyone knew that Labour would be taking the reigns of power, that is except for Cllr. Clive Hart who apparently didn't, and claimed he didn't think he would be getting the support of Cllr Worrow toward the end of the meeting, even though its likely everyone else thought he would be doing the dirty, to his former colleagues, that is voting against his former Leader Cllr Bob Bayford, anyhow as I parked the car , the Harts strolled past, I'm not sure they saw me, because I'm sure Clive & Sandra would have given me a smile and a wave.

Shared the lift up to the council chamber with Cllr Driver, didn't seem he was in any mood for chit chat particularly not since my conversation with him over that publicity stunt at the Turner Contemporary, when his Labour membership was not clear, still it good to see that he still has a home with Labour particularly after all that independent talk earlier in the year.

I must say things were crowded in the public gallery, good to see, fellow bloggers James Maskell, and Luke Edwards, taking an interest, in addition to a couple of proper bods from the Gazette.

Still although change was obviously on the way, the atmosphere was fairly muted, I guess the Tory group dreading losing and the Labour lot dreading winning, since they'll have to put their money where their mouth is.

Mention was made of Conservative Cllr Simon Moores being on his way back from Amsterdam or somewhere similar, a quick metal image formed of Thanet's most qualified, strapping himself into a cessna and battling the elements in what would have been a futile effort to save the day.

In my view it didn't take long for Labour gloom to pervade the atmosphere of the Chamber, particularly , with our new leader quickly adopting the victim role for Thanet with mentions of the area being badly treated and injustice, lets hope things lighten up.

Still I can't help thinking that, the next few years will be dominated by political minows, chopping and changing, I still have difficulty with councillors who jump ship, I'm fairly sure I could ingratiate myself with either Labour or the Tories, and get elected but having always been a Liberal it would be just like asking Mrs Me to swap her Chelsea season ticket for blimin Arsenal, it aint going to happen.

Not sure how little old ladies of Birchington South will take to the news that two councillors Worrow and Cohen are voting with Labour, or indeed just how shallow Cllr Worrows allegiance to his colleagues in the conservative party.
Still Worrow has got support for his free parking in Birchington, campaign, which I dare say his constituents will need once Labour start jacking up council tax.

Anyway Good Luck to Cllr Clive Hart lets hope he can do a better job running the council than has done with Labour, who might well of won the district elections, had it not been for that unseemly business of removing Mark Nottingham, or fighting against social housing and lets not forget jobs.

Finally it was good to see that the temperamental sound system was working, although the timer isn't however, a lashed up system was created courtesy of a laptop and projector.


  1. Free 1/2 hour parking for BIRCHINGTON will save the Villages shops from closing (like Ghost Town Margate), as residents can already park free in Westgate.Minster and Westwood this is good news for the people of BIRCHINGTON.
    The new Labour/Independent Council can only be an improvement on the old administration which has let all the residents of THANET down,The Independents will curtail any nonsensical proposals that Labour will put forward.

  2. If 11.06am was actually there in the gallery, they would know that the motion was for free 1/2 hr parking in the CAR PARKS not Birchington High Street - it's going to make no difference to the Village shops.... and I for one as a Birchington voter did not vote for Worrow the person but Worrow the Conservative representative - if he thinks he's so good then he won't have a problem going for a by-election.

  3. Nice to see that relations between us bloggers is so much better than that between the Councillors. Long may it continue.

    There was a lot policy-wise declared last night with car parking, runaways and as to how literally we should take this years manifesto. The implications of that last one shouldnt be underestimated when considering the issue of Manston night flights and previous comments regarding how the Labour Group would be treating the issue.

    It was a very nice stopwatch. Some thought needs to be put to how long responses should be though because the 3 minute response to every mention of a Councillors name made it a bit of a farce.

  4. Here is Clive Hart's speech from last night introducing the motion before the leadership vote Chairman:
    There is nothing personal in the motion I wish to put to council. I put the motion simply in the hope of improving matters regarding an executive that appears not to grasp the situation they and all of us assembled here are in.
    The plain fact is that this is a hung council with no single party having a majority of members. Yet the current cabinet fail to understand that cross-party working, with all that entails, is essential for the working of the council.
    When this Conservative administration took office we were certainly promised closer cross-party working. Indeed I was asked to contribute to the very first press release saying exactly that. Then what? Nothing but lip-service. I’ve certainly not been asked to contribute to any further council press releases.
    Much more importantly, the joint group leader briefings promised to Cllr King and I back in May have never materialised and all too often any suggested input from myself or the Independent group leader is met with at best ‘a brick wall’ and on occasions even disdain or ridicule.
    Cross party Overview and Scrutiny Committee recommendations have been totally ignored. Cross party Cabinet Advisory Groups have had their terms of reference snatched away from them at the last minute, and despite the heartfelt personal plea to the cabinet of its Independent Chairman, the Local Development Framework CAG are not even allowed to vote on their own recommendations.
    The so called ‘Conservative priority’ Ramsgate Port and Harbour has both a Cabinet Advisory Group and a Scrutiny Working Party who both have to wait and wait and wait without being called into action and all too often frontline Labour or Independent councillors who call for action on one issue or another are met with a dismissive attitude from cabinet members.
    The plain fact is that for seven months the executive have continued to behave as though they enjoyed the support of a huge working majority when they led through a minority administration with just one more member than Labour. Well now, thanks to a member who by all accounts could no longer stomach their arrogant attitudes, we are equal at 26 members each for both Labour and the Conservatives.
    For over eight years we’ve suffered Conservative rule at TDC. For the past seven months the Conservative administration has selfishly clung on to power, unwilling to share any truly meaningful decisions with the rest of us who make up the majority of the council. Despite the closeness of political balance in this council all we are ever offered is ‘fudge’ and distraction!
    Under the constitution the leader appoints the cabinet so the only way we have to change an executive that is so clearly out of touch is to firstly remove the leader.
    I therefore move the following motion:
    “Council resolves that Cllr Bayford be removed from the Office of Leader of the council and that a new Leader be appointed”.

  5. I agree with 12.03 - it's a real shame Worrow's ambition is not matched by his ability. If he has integrity as he says in the paper - Name the day for the by-election.

  6. Anonymous 12.o3

    I know it was for FREE 1/2 parking in the Main Car parks, this will help those of us that want to just pop in and use the bank,post fresh bread,cakes, milk or just a newspaper without the exhorbitant charge for doing this,I did not Vote for either John Worrow or Jack Cohen but would like to thank them for their efforts to help their electorate.
    Very suprised to see that our Parish Chairman did not support the motion when other Birchington Conservative Councillors did.
    So you voted Conservative rather for the person,I vote for the person first and what they can do for the electorate not blindly for a party label.

  7. Anonymous 12.40

    where was the integrety of the Conservative leadership when certain a Conservative Councillor was put on trial for cruelty to a little Kitten another for being drunk and yet another for living somewhere in South America.
    When independents cross the floor and take the Conservative whip
    No denounciation from their leaders then or cries for a bye-election until forced to by the media.

  8. Tony as usaual you have it absolutelly right and as we said last night,Worrows defection to the Independents is the act of a man with no loyalty to those who voted for him as a Conservative. In todays Gazette, he has the affrontery to claim that people voted for him not as the Conservative Candidate sporting a Blue rosette, but as an individual, a"messiah" come to save them at this critical time.Worrow should hang his head in shame and rather than try and justify his treachery should apologise to those who put their trust in him.
    A very sad day for Birchington.

  9. Question Tony is Peter now on the Bignews Payroll?

  10. Peter I dont know how you managed all that typing I got bored reading it so you must have got bored typing it.

    What a load of tosh our councillors get up to.

  11. Peter seems to not only have emerged from the closet as a socialist, heralding his master elevation to the leadership, but also as an admirer of the Hart barnet. He has even seen him combing it which makes one wonder if this is not something Mrs. Hazrt should know of!

    After all, Peter recently announced he is tired of naked women. Kind of makes one wonder where all that peace and love will now flow.

  12. I very much agree with you anonymous 1.46 - but we still have Alastair Bruce. Unlike Mr Worrow, he just gets on with things without shouting about it. I have always found him helpful and courteous, again unlike Mr Worrow who just dropped me when he got bored with handling my case. This makes Mr Bruce the only Birchington South councillor that hasn't changed sides if I remember correctly.

  13. Haha, I love it when people try put a political label on me (I guess they've suddenly forgotten my constant praise of Mrs Sandys & Roger Gale, two of the best MPs around).

    Don, ever heard of copy-and-paste?

    And as for hair, do you gullible lot really believe that Bayford's beard is real?

  14. It was tongue in cheek, Peter, for we all know you are too much of an admirer of yourself to have time for any devotion to a political party.

    Mind you, your little justification of your love Hart stance, still does not explain how you came to see him combing his toupé. Or, for that matter, when you got to tug Bob Bayford's beard.
    Stranger and stranger!

  15. "Mention was made of Conservative Cllr Simon Moores being on his way back from Amsterdam or somewhere similar, a quick metal image formed of Thanet's most qualified, strapping himself into a cessna and battling the elements in what would have been a futile effort to save the day."

    Tony, that just made me burst out laughing. I haven't laughed like that in a long time. I never had you down for a comedian - Lib Dem membership aside, of course! Haha. Thanks for the mention by the way. I hope our paths cross again at some point.

  16. It was indeed good to meet the other bloggers in the gallery. An example of cross party working no less!

    Can we add the former leader of the council interviewed under caution for suspected fraud to the list along side kittens and the drunk driving?

  17. If it pleases your tiny little red mind, Margate Architecture. Why not throw in a few banged Labour MP expenses cheats while you are at it. Not that any of it has anything to do with the thread of this discussion.

  18. To be fair on MA, these Labour cheats weren't Thanet councillors, were they?

  19. In all fairness, given the alleged offences, interviewing under caution makes sense, though nothing should be inferred from that. No charges have been brought, so perhaps a little early for that MA. Anon, its just a bit of banter.

    Can we expect you at the Planning Committee meeting on Thursday, MA?

  20. Does in matter, Peter, the thread was not about criminal behaviour of councillors but the change of control. MA was just throwing in a nasty little dig, but then screams some kind of neutrality when accused of Labour bias. If she is Labour fine, her choice, but be honest about it.

    I'm UKIP with pro facist leanings!

  21. No more so than the one about incarcerated Labour MPs and peers. Bit tit for tat, but the sort of silly game the mentally challenged on the left seem to enjoy.

  22. I cant believe anyone still falls for the old confidence trick that whoever runs "their private club" will make any difference to the slaves oops(rate payers)

    Just look up Social Contract any authority over you is just presumed and you are failing to object to their tax farm. Its an illusion that you have a choice in anything if you are silly enough to vote for any of them.

  23. I firmly believe Worrow should resign and prompt a by-election. It is wholly undemocratic that power should shift in this way. But for any Tory Councillor to cry that his action is unacceptable - given their stance on other similar "changes"and the fact that the bleats only come when they lose as a consequence of a defection - is decetful. All Parties play the same game, and it should stop.

    That said, the grotesque remarks being made by Moores on Thanet Life about the intellectual abilities and the employment position of Labour Councillors are way out of order. It is time this waspish, nasty, vindictive snob remembered that he is not in the playground any more. Sour grapes, understandable, but he is way out of line.

  24. 09:08 well done I think that your views are widely held especially in Birchington South Ward who have been betrayed by Worrow as you rightly point out Cohen used to hold a senior position in the NTCA Tories , Worrow canvassed as a Tory complete with rosette promising the earth and as usual delivering nothing not even loyalty. Voters your time has come to show Worrow that his deceit is unacceptable to you.

    Worrow needs to be removed and I suggest that the Birchington South Ward now get organised for his removal, Perhaps you can enlist the help of Cllr Bruce the only Conservative Cllr in the Ward let us see what he can do/.

  25. 9:08 / 9:25, do you ever feel stupid replying to yourself?

  26. 9:08 hates tories but he has a special place in his heart for the "waspish" simon moores as he keeps reminding us.

    Just remind me which of clive's new team has a job then or have we been paying for them to play politics for years?

  27. 09:30 you are totall wrong the two e-mails have different authors but the same message Worrow has betrayed the electorate he promises what he can't deliver, his record of achievements to date could be put on the back of a postage stamp with a one inch brush, he may have fooled the electorate this time but his days are numbered

  28. On another point, Thanet politics are so Ramsgate/Margate dominated that everywhere else does appear not to get a look in. Take Birchington for example it has a rock solid Conservative voter base and the chances are that time and time again a Conservative will get in. At the same time this voter base is taken very much for granted and some issues do not seem that important as they did at election time. That is until someone has a change of heart and that it is good for local democracy because at this moment in time every single member now has a value on TDC and can fight for what they were elected for.

  29. Annon 12:12, I cannot see where John Worrow has betrayed the electorate. In fact he has put himself in a very commanding position alongside Jack Cohen to deliver what they can for Birchinton. It may seem very bullish but then that is the nature politics.

  30. This needs to happen in all Councils who do these public servants think they are ???

    Police Called For Filming Council Meeting

  31. Tony, if I did not know you are actually sharp eyed, I would suggest you need to go to Specsavers. As you cannot see it for yourself, John Worrow has obtained public office by false pretences. If he feels, by his defection from the banner under which he campaigned, he can deliver more for the people of Birchington, then he should explain that to them and seek their endorsement.

    I somehow doubt you would yourself feel comfortable with retaining your seat if you left the Labour party and voted with the Tories. I am even more sure that your Labour colleagues and voters would, quite rightly, castigate you for it.

    John Worrow has betrayed all the Conservatives who voted for him. It is not bullish or politics, but the conduct of a traitor if he continues to hold the seat without seeking the approval of that electorate.

  32. This is what is needed and can happen once you are aware of whats really been going on.It wont matter which puppet is put in place and by whom.

    The Vote That Changed The World! - End Corporate Rule

  33. 2:48 Why don't you get yourself a kids bubble tub and sit in front of a mirror to watch the bubbles you blow float about and pop. Or better still, turn yourself in voluntarily.

  34. Anon of midday, I do not hate Tories. I do hate people who believe themselves to be superior to others, who make innumerable boastful claims about their educational and business achievements, who look down on and talk down to others who have apparently lesser qualifications and experience, and who trumpet themselves relentlessly. I hate manipulative behaviour. That is why I dislike Thanet Life and its "owner" . I appear not to be alone in that view.

  35. 6:18 Some people are superior to others at certain things. Simon Moores can fly a plane whereas I never progressed beyond a gliding licence.

    It also follows that some people are more capable than others of holding high office. Too many people get promoted one rung too high, even in the world of industry and commerce. There they can be, and invariably are, demoted again or sacked when they reach their level of incompetence.

    Unfortunately, with our elected representatives, we don't get to choose their actual jobs and, once in them, we are stuck with them for years. It does not, therefore, seem unreasonable to ask just what are their qualifications for their particular portfolios.

    Perhaps you know so tell me, what is Clive Hart's leadership and high level management experience for example?

  36. Easy ... Full time union man clive seems to have stopped work 15 years ago?

    Left school at 15 and completed 5 year indentured Electrical Apprenticeship. 5 years as Craftsman Electrician. 15 years as Craftsman Electrical Fitter (Electricity Supply). 2 years as C.A.B. Adviser. 5 years working and eventually running the Welfare Unit at the local college.
    CITY & GUILDS Basic Engineering & Electrical Installation Work. JIB Apprenticeship Diploma. NEBOSH National General Certificate in Occupational Safety and Health. A LEVEL Sociology. CERTIFICATE in Interpersonal Skills. BTEC CERTIFICATE in Management Studies. CERTIFICATE OF GRADUATION from I&DEA Leadership Academy.

  37. Clive Hart seems to have done a bit more work than David Cameron then.

  38. Clive must have missed Eton and Oxford out of his CV

    Thats modesty for you

  39. Personally, I have no idea at all about Hart's qualifications. But I know what I think about a politician - Moores - who publishes disparaging, intellectually snobbish and "up his own arse" comments about his opponents. All against his own claims of success and achievement of course. You can approve of him if you wish. We must agree to differ.

  40. Tom, well your comments do raise the question who are people voting for at election time. Is it the person or the party.
    In my case it is the party and being elected as a RTC labour member that is what I am and that will be the line I take win or lose.
    Like yourself I follow the blogs and there seems to be this awful bitterness coming from the Conservative camp aimed at Clive Hart or whoever.
    The current attacks on John Worrow go even further to enforce the opinion what a nasty bunch they must be.
    So why are people so surprised John Worrow left ?

  41. A BTEC in Management, you are surely having a laugh, sir. What we want to see is successfully managed a reasonable sized business or maybe commanded an infantry battalion in the first Gulf war plus a fair bit of financial acumen.

    Having years in a large corporation I have yet to meet a union representative, at any level, with a real clue on leadership or man management.

  42. Tony, pleased to see you recognise you were elected as a Labour councillor and that you intend to honour that effective pledge.

    As for your comment about the attacks on Clive Hart, surely the likes of Bayford, Wells and Moores, in particular, have been the subject of regular attacks around these blogs. That, I would suggest, is politics and, if one cannot live with it, then one has no place in it.

    John Worrow deserves to be attacked for what he has done unless he shows a molecule of decency and offers himself up for re-election to the people of his ward.

    Seem to recall there was a lot of bile flowing within Labour circles a while bach over the Mark Nottingham deselection aimed at Kay Dark. Does that make Labour folk nasty?

    Sadly, Tony, politics does seem to bring the worst out of some people and some almost treat the opposition as the enemy. Just read some of the letters on Ceefax or local papers to guage the hate. Sometimes you would not think we are one nation who might actually quite like each other but for the silly labels.

  43. Personally I vote for the person rather than the party, at least in general elections. That's why I voted for Roger Gale (can anyone even remember the name of the Labour candidate for North Thanet?).

  44. Tom,
    I live central harbour ward and twice in the past decade two Councillors one Labour and one Ramsgate First defected to the Conservatives.
    The Conservatives were perfectly happy to take on board defectors who campainged against their own candidates and there was very little talk about by elections then.In fact one eventually deselected a hard working Conservative councillor in St Peter's. So much for loyalty.

  45. Tom, you are right about politics bringing the worst out in people. Look at the way people without jobs, suffering from a disability or whatever are made to look by the Conservative supporting press as if they are scroungers etc,. When everyone knows jobs are hard to come by.

  46. Tony - John Worrows defection is not about a change in beliefs to that of another party, it is just a change to be able to bandstand. He cannot survive without telling everyone what he does - which you just don't do in a party. Sure the conservatives are defending their position - so would labour in their position, they are both groups that stick together. The tories biggest mistake was letting this lost little boy in and hoping they could turn him into a politician instead of a windbag. This is now his fourth change in almost as many years - is there another one on the way? I'm sure labour won't want him and he's running out of options. Best he gets the by-election out of the way now - because his parking idea is going to cost us all money if it ever gets through.

  47. His parking idea will be money well spent.

  48. Hope you feel the same Peter when you rates go up!

  49. Annon,

    Yours remarks just go to prove how shallow the local Conservative party is. He was perfectly okay to stand as a Conservative candidate in May and at a flip of a coin you are all slagging him off.
    I am even more convinced he made the right choice if this is how you all behave.

  50. All these comments are very interesting - but wouldn't it be a good idea for the tories and labour to just work together for the good of Thanet and stop these independants playing with the figures.

  51. If my memory serves me right wasn't it some dope in the conservative party who put his signature to a piece of paper that shackled TDC with horrendous costs running the mutli story car parks. So in order to balance the parking revenue account the other car parks have to pay excessive charges.

  52. Tony - I'm not just slagging him off...I don't agree with anyone changing party, and all parties go into attack mode when this kind of thing is done to them. So it's nothing to do with the tories being shallow - every party is shallow as far as I'm concerned. But I like the idea of 12.13 though, wouldn't it be wonderful to have people who just cared about Thanet rather than party politics that really should remain for a higher level than district.

  53. Well as I've suggested elsewhere 12:05, we could easily subsidise a little occasional free parking in the villages by making TDC pay to park their cars in Mill Lane, just as most other workers who drive to Margate have to. Or is that a silly suggestion?

  54. Who's your choice for a joint cabinet then?

  55. Peter - about your comment "money well spent".......I have a choice about parking, I have no choice on my rates!!

  56. What about my other comment (12:29), any thoughts on that?

  57. Dropping in for a moment, Cabinet directs and formulates policy and officers execute against this. Councillors vote to achieve a majority to pass resolutions and policy.

    I've reminded Labour and my colleagues that what happened years ago is of very little interest to anyone it's what happens today that matters and in particular in the present economic conditions

    While people vote for political parties the reality is that the consequences are determined by the decisions of a handful of people on either side of the political divide dealing with an incredibly complex social, service and financial environment.

    Thanet's future now lies in the hands of different people with different objectives and policies. What is unavoidable is the financial picture and how that is interpreted and actioned without raising council tax or losing essential services

  58. Would you regard free parking at Mill Lane for TDC employees as an "essential service" Dr Moores?

  59. Peter, the number of council employees parking at Mill Lane is miniscule compared with the numbers of members of the public who would take advantage of free parking. Hence it would be a drop in the ocean as an offset of the cost involved.

    The removal of such free parking might also lead to union agitation over the loss of an established benefit in kind leading to a demand for a wage increase to compensate.

    Sadly, Peter, you are far too simple minded for the real world.

  60. Echoing the previous comment I would direct Peter to Unison or perhaps the incoming Cabinet may have some influence there?

    That said, I'm afraid Peter's view while well-meaning, frequently over-simplifies quite complex matters to the point of confusion.

  61. Thank you Simon (you forgot to login by the way).

    How about charging people to park in the TDC owned free car park behind The Winter Gardens then? That's usually jam-packed several times per week with cars & coaches (people either visiting the theatre or the TC), & I don't think people would actually mind too much paying to park there.

    Or is that simple minded too?

  62. Not my call Peter and I suspect that this falls within Thanet Leisure Force's remit and not TDC in regard to the Winter Gardens.

    Invariably and on becoming a councillor, you discover that what might seem like a good idea is disqualified by contracts, leases, ownership, environmental issues, human rights and much more...

    I would however be interested to see what happens to the Margate Football Club planning application for a hotel in this week's cabinet now the game has changed?

  63. The car park has nothing to do with Margate Winter Gardens / Thanet Leisure Force. I know that for a fact.

  64. Tony Beachcomber, I must admit to a bit of disappointment in you for I thought you were above the petty playground sniping.

    My view is that anyone who stands for election as representative of a party or group and then leaves it, should seek re-election. Regardless of party and, since two wrong never make a right, regardless of what may have happened in the past. The only exception might be when very close to elections anyway, but even then they should relinguish their seat.

    I also do not hold with these broad generalisations. All Conservatives are not shallow any more than all Socialists are not firebrands. Clearly you do not agree with many Conservatives policies, in the same way that I do not agree with many Labour ones. That is, however, but opinion and our opinions are not always right.

    The real maturity is being able to respect each others right to hold those opinions. Hence, I think John Worrow should give his electorate the opportunity to vote on his decision in the same way that I would expect you to if you switched to any party other than Labour.

  65. On a number of blogs the matter of party politics, at local council level, has been raised.

    In Thanet the issue has another level.

    That being whether the local party is a true representative of the real tory party.

    In spite of efforts to raise, out of "the local blue, a snipe about the mention of IRA the issue is valid.

    Didn't Thanet South tories expel a member of the IRA supportive League of Saint George ? Should their electorate be told more about this ?

    Wasn't the Vice Chair of North Thanet tories identified in a book which described him as a "Fully paid up member of IRSP" (The political wing of INLA). ?

    When that tory stood for council should his electorate have been told about an alleged criminal record for assault ona pensioner at Pontefract ?

    Or having been arrested for paramilitary activity in 1987 ?

    Did Cllr Hayton give evidence for this paramilitary tory in Aldwych High Court ?

    And did then Tory Cllr Cohen develop suspicions of the favours being done by certain "Independents" for Cllr Hayton on TDC. Such as holding a Standards Cttee meeting whilst withholding the evidence file from the cttee, something later admitted to by TDC solicitor Mr Borley ?

    Did tory Cllrs vote to try to sustain public funding of Kent Adventure Training Corps (Nicknamed "Hitler Youth" by the bona fide Army Cadets) at Margate Charter Trustees ? Did Cllrs Daly and Watt Ruffell vote to try to keep public funding for a private uniformed youth and child group ?

    A pseudo cadet group who lost their KCC youth group affilaition status in 2003 ?

    So are the local tories really a representation of the true tory party ? Or is it business as usual as they ignore matters paramilitary, criminal, child porn and animal cruelty ?

    Didn't the tory concerned feel able to sue the publisher and the book for describing him as INLA then ? Oh dear and no doubt he could have relied on Cllr Hayton's evidence eh ?

  66. Tony Flaig, very surprised you have not deleted the scandalous claims, including the naming of people, in Retired's rant. If, as he suggests, someone committed perjury in a court of law why have they not had their collar felt.

    No doubt he will claim some kind of Tory, Kent Police, Masonic allegiance, but without prove he really should not be allowed to publish his claims in the public domain anywhere.

  67. Boring though Rick is I'm sure that he would long ago have been arrested and locked up if his description of events wasn't factual. Where he wanders away is his interpretation of those facts.

  68. Tim Clark, I think it is more that he is dismissed as something of a nutter. The people he refers to, and others in positions of public office, are also subjected to an endless string of letters from him in his real name of Richard Card, making further claims.

    I would suggest that were his claims in anyway true, conspiracies to bomb Deal barracks, illegal terrorist organisations, unauthorised weapon ranges and perjuring councillors, it is those he accuses rather than himself who would be incarcerated. That they have not been suggests there is not one scrap of evidcence outside the mind of a demented old man.

    Were he not such an old fool, more pitied than anything else, I am sure he would have been sued before now.

  69. This thread has dragged on for so long and over the same ground so many times, I think readers are just hoping for another blog entry. Hell, its making me blog more just to get away!

  70. You have to take into account that some people are hounded to stand, after having refused to stand at previous elections.They will only ask you if they think you can be of use or if you are a problem, in that you have asked too many awkward questions of the authority, that they would prefer were kept under wraps.

    Its all decided well in advance of any 'election' who is going to win and why. Why else do you think , the same old faces are able to carry on racking in the dosh year after year ?

  71. We no longer have Alistair Bruce, or Simon Moores, or Chris Wells or Martin Wise in cabinet. It can only be an improvement. As for Clive hart saying Thanet has been treated badly by maidstone...he's right.